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1830's Bullet Pouch
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Greenhorn
posted
Good Day;
I have been looking at A J Miller paintings, sketchbooks of the fur trade, BOB #3 and #8.
I would like to make a bullet pouch that would have been used in the Rocky Mountains 1830's timeframe.
Found some 4-5oz Bison Commercial Brain Tan from "The Leather Guy".
Not alot of detail on the types of leather used. If away from the settlements then brain tan would be the only option. If in a larger settlement then different options for leather would be avaiable. Have any of you had experience with this type of leather? Would Linen cord be the right stitching choice?
Any suggestions, Comments?
As always, Thanks for your assistance.


"You head due west or any other place tomorrow, you'll be starvin pilgrim in a week".

"Ain't likely to meet up with someone of my good nature".
 
Posts: 9 | Location: North Slope of the White Face,Utah | Registered: 15 November 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Hiya Two Toes,

That leather would be fine for making a bag. IMO, real sinew would be the choice for sewing the bag, howsomever, linen thread will do just fine if it is of a heavy lay. A chunk of beeswax to dress the thread would be needed as this will help preserve the thread and give it additional strength.

I have a bag that I made back in '72 of buffalo and bull hide that is vegtable tanned. Still good as new,'cept of course fer normal wear'n'tear!

Hope this helps ya!

Regards, xfox


The forest is a wilderness only to those that fear it, silent only to those that hear nothing. The forest is a friend to those that dwell within its' nature and it is filled with the sounds of life to those that listen.
 
Posts: 532 | Location: Bitterroot Valley | Registered: 23 October 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
Picture of Beaver Hunter
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Here is my bag inspired by Miller paintings. The bag is made from thicker brain tanned deer hide. It is also lined with ticking. I rubbed a tallow/beeswax mixture into the ticking and hide to help "water proof" it. The bag is decorated with size 8/0 beads in white and pony trader blue. The strap is a little over one inch wide and is non-adjustable. It is doubled up and has ticking sewn in the middle to prevent stretching out of place. There is one pocket sewn on the inside. A buffalo powder horn with a braided strap is used with this bag.

I would NOT recommend the commercial brain tanned buffalo hide from The Leather Guy. Nothing against The Leather Guy. I only live about an hour from them and they are great people. But the commercial brain tanned hide they sell is nothing like the real thing. I purchased some for a bag and I didn't like it. As soon as it got wet, it became very stiff, like cardboard. It didn't soften back up like good smoked brain tanned hide does. I ended up throwing the bag away after that.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Beaver Hunter,

 
Posts: 76 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 03 September 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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My bag is a small D shaped bag made from pillow ticking material. This material shows up on many trade list of the far west and could have been made by a trapper in the wilds. I used bees wax rubbed into it to help weather proof it. This too is like bags seen in A.J.Millers works. My buffaloe horn is from a buff I had taken and is attached to my bags strap. I have carried this bag in the field for many years now.

[IMG]My shooting bag, closed[/IMG]

Visit our website to see the whats in your bag article for more details on my bag and another members Miller type bag. http://rockymountainoutfit.com...s/whats-in-your-bag/
 
Posts: 350 | Location: Whitewater, CO. | Registered: 22 June 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Bufflerub1880,
I went to your referenced page and saw your fire kit. You mention it contains "a tin of char with chispa."

Chispa in the noun form means spark in Spanish. Now, are you using the term to refer to the flint/chert or the steel?

Want 'n ta know,
Sparks aka Chispas


"I thought when you said you chased tornadoes, it was just a metaphor."
--soon to be ex-fiance in Twister
 
Posts: 247 | Location: Boise | Registered: 12 November 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Chispa or shall I say Sparks,

You are correct, that is what those strikers are called. The coffin shaped ones are a combo,screwdriver and the hole fits your ramrod so you can use to pull it if need be. That one you seen is not mine but one of the other guys in our outfit. I do have one of those in my bag as well and an oval on my belt.
 
Posts: 350 | Location: Whitewater, CO. | Registered: 22 June 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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Thanks for the great advice and photo's. I had been on the RMO site but not seen that link to bags and contents. Thanks!
Looks like I need to look further into purchasing some brain tan from another source, maybe I can find someone who would sell a smaller piece since a full hide is quite expensive.
My first thought was to construct a pouch in Brain Tan with a flap and straps of darker oil tan leather. Kind of a two tone effect.
Still a bit confused about how oil tan would have been avaiable. Most bags of the time were constructed by the owner or a harness maker.
My long term goal is to aquire my clothing and gear, then visit about membership in the AMM or NAF. Trying to be careful about buying items that are within that timeframe and would have been used in the Rocky Mountains. Several items I have purchased in the past would not work.
If anyone has additional advise, I would appreciate it.
Thanks again,
Twotoes


"You head due west or any other place tomorrow, you'll be starvin pilgrim in a week".

"Ain't likely to meet up with someone of my good nature".
 
Posts: 9 | Location: North Slope of the White Face,Utah | Registered: 15 November 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of Notchy Bob
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I bought some of the commercial brain tan buffalo hide from the Leather Guy. I have not used the bag I made from it in the rain, so can't comment on whether it gets stiff or not. The leather I ordered (partial hides, two big pieces) are rough on both sides and of somewhat uneven texture and thickness, which makes me think they may be "splits." However, the leather is very tough, and thongs cut from it are much stronger than any I have seen cut from split cowhide. The color of the hides I got is a dirty yellow-tan, which I consider very appropriate for the stuff I like to make.

The leather I ordered was also smoked. The small quantities of real braintan I have seen had a very pleasant odor, but the pieces I got from the Leather Guy smelled like creosote. I could not keep them in the house, but had to make a rack on the back porch and leave them hanging in the breeze for six weeks before the smell eased off enough to bring them in.

Not that I am complaining, and certainly not casting any aspersions on the Leather Guy. I was very happy with the transaction overall... his price was reasonable, and his service was excellent.

And Beaver Hunter, that is a very nice outfit you put together. You set a standard the rest of us should try to emulate.

Notchy Bob


"Should have kept the old ways just as much as I could, and the tradition that guarded us. Should have rode horses. Kept dogs."

from The Antelope Wife
 
Posts: 333 | Location: Florida | Registered: 24 May 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of GreyWolf
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The bag design, size, and decoration are based on the shot bags (one of the actual names used for such bags in the literature of the times - they were NOT called possibles bags - that was/is a different item all together!) seen in the artwork of Alfred J. Miller who went to the 1837 Mtn Man Rendezvous.
The bag is 7 1/2" x 9 1/2" approximate........the body and strap are made from heavy brain tan that was not overly softened....the beadwork is typical Northern Plains style of the period - color choice and size was based on what was available per the trade lists and other documentation of the 1830's era.......bag is 7 1/2" x 91/2" approximate


The horn is an original dated 1791 and later 1825 - I added the rawhide repairs to make it usable and added the beaded strap - it's on a separate strap, but buttons to the bag strap when I want to limit swing....


The back of the bag - the thong and buffalo bone toggle slip under the waist belt and keep the bag from swinging freely, yet allows the bag and horn to be easily removed without having to remove the belt - what documentation there is for the 1830 era has bags at waist height and not the real high under the arm carry - besides due to a shoulder injury the high carry just doesn't work for me..........You can also see the gusseted bottom which allows a bit more room for my big hands


Inside - lined with bed/pillow ticking, also documented to time and place - it has a small inner pouch made from leather to hold greased patches (most likely use), balls, or whatever....


Some new and old accoutrements to go along with the new bag...

Top row below the main horn - from left to right:
Cap horn for when I carry my caplock rifle, shotgun, or C & B revolvers - made it in 1973.....originally a priming horn it turned a real nice mellow yellow naturally (I've primed from my main horn for years).....
Antelope horn powder measure re-enforced with buffalo rawhide - horn is the tip from the first Wyoming goat I ever took back in 1973. It tucks into a small pocket on the back of the front bag strap, but is attached to the horn in case I choose to carry teh horn without the bag or with another one. You can see it tucked into the "pouch" in the second pic from the top.
"Medicine" Bottle aka what one carries his beaver scent in - re willow covered with deer rawhide

Second Row
Original Ely Bros cap box circa 1840 - I carry a couple of spare flints in it!
An original powder/shot measurer circa 1840 - use it for my smoothbore

Bottom Row
Hand Forged turn screw out of a mid-1800's rake tine
"Bag" knife - re-shaped from an original Shear Steel table knife made by Robert F. Mosley, Sheffield (circa 1850-60's? - the basic style is older though ) - the bone handle is reinforced with buffalo rawhide - this will eventually get mounted on the back of the bag with a rawhide sheath......
Hand Forged fire striker from a piece of old wagon spring found along the Oregon Trail near South Pass in 1974....


As I noted above mey bag was based mostly on this one by Miller being carried by Antoine Clement:


To see some of Miller's art work see here...
http://art.thewalters.org/sear...arch&all_fields=true

Ther is also documentation for commercially made bags - see Rex Norman's "1837 Sketchbook" available from our hosts, Muzzleloader Magazine

As for an oil tanned strap - do you mean a latigo strap? I'm not sure how old the latigo tannage is but oil tanned leather is a very old tannage. The other option would be to used a good veg/bark tan leather for the strap - harness leather would have been available.


aka Chuck Burrows
 
Posts: 616 | Location: Southern Rockies | Registered: 03 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of GreyWolf
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Here's my version of an eastern style bag that went west and got a bit of added "bling"
The pouch is based on a pic of an original I found on line, but did not note where I got it –My version is patterned after an original. It is made from alum tawed sheepskin (I love this stuff!) rather than cowhide like the original, but does have a dark blue plaid wool liner similar to the original. Size is 8.5" wide by 7.5" tall. It has a small exterior pocket for storing greased patches, and a short fringed welt. It has a brain tan buckskin repair along one edge seam, both inside and outside, an inner pocket of brain tan as a later addition, and the strap of bark tan cowhide harness leather is also intended to represent a later replacement - the adjustment buckle is a saddle buckle of the era. On the back is a strap with a bone button that can be tucked under the waist belt or sash to keep the bag from swinging away from one’s body. The flap is closed with a hand made domed brass button. The bit of beadwork is done with blue pound beads similar in color to many originals of the era and is intended to represent what one of the early mountaineers paramours may have added to “fancy” things up a bit – east meets west…. The horn is an original SW Virginia horn (circa 1850’s?) that I got in a trade. I repaired the small cracks along the butt with a bit of pitch and then covered it over with deer rawhide. I then added an iron ring for the bark tan cowhide harness strap at both ends and can be used alone or attached to the patch strap via a couple of small braintan thongs. The horn can be used alone or attached to the patch strap via a couple of small braintan thongs. The strap is adjustable via the two braintan buckskin thongs on each end. Mated up to the horn are a 70gr antler powder measure and a simple iron touchhole pick attached to the horn via a fine link iron chain, which came off some old (circa 1880’s) harness - the pick and measure fit into a small pocket on the back of the bag's strap. The whole set was given a patina of age – used but not abused………….














aka Chuck Burrows
 
Posts: 616 | Location: Southern Rockies | Registered: 03 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Chuck,

Thank you so much in sharing whats in your bags. Real nice work with simple equipage to shoot and take care of ones rifle. This was what we were after when we put together our article "whats in your bag" It is always fun to see the innards of anothers bag. Also shows that all this new modern plastic containers and all these tools and such are not needed.
Thanks
Bill
 
Posts: 350 | Location: Whitewater, CO. | Registered: 22 June 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Dick
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Nice display, Chuck, and nice work. Thanks.

Dick


"Est Deus in Nobis"
 
Posts: 2902 | Location: Helena, Montana | Registered: 10 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Graybeard
Picture of Seepwater
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Well, now you done gone and done it. I started two bags (same pattern but will have different decoration).

I'll have to run over to Wally world and get some pillow ticking.


shoot first ask questions later
 
Posts: 220 | Location: Lyman, WY....just 6 miles from Ft. Bridger! | Registered: 09 November 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hivernant
Picture of Pare-
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Hello, Chuck! I thought that work looked familiar. As always, VERY nice and good information as well.

Pare-
 
Posts: 104 | Location: Little River, I.T. | Registered: 06 February 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Chuck really great stuff, thanks for sharing. Been trying to find some period hide to make myself a pouch. I am working on the long hunter era.

BC


"Better fare hard with good men than feast it with bad."
Thomas Paine
 
Posts: 649 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 27 June 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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This is a good thread with very fine work being pictured. It has given me the impetus to get on with another bag or two. Thanks for sharing.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3560 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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