Greetings from the far north ,Well it has been 30 yrs since i last did any black powder.my interest was rekindled by Mike Nesbitt in an article he did for ffg magazine,Given the way a barrel attatches is there a way I could build a multi caliber set up? I was thinking one in.36 and 1 in 45 and 1 in 54 this way i could make a compact kit .I figured all I neede to do was order 3 different Barrels all of the same Dia but different caliber bores is this possible ??
thanx sourdoughsmitty

I'm no gunsmith/ builder by any stretch of the imagination, but I would think some sort of hooked breech for interchangable barrles would be possible. It's done on some production guns by Lyman, & T/C. I beleive barrle makers such as Green Mountain sell "drop in" barrles for such rifles. OH,... sourdoughsmitty...,excuse my manners,...WELCOME TO THE CAMPFIRE...I'm sure others with more knowledge than I will be able to give ya more info. RD

It is my understanding that there are "drop-in" replacement barrels available for certain factory MLers, and that might work in different calibers as long as the barrel profiles were the same. In custom rifles it is also possible, but pricey. I would question the need for three or more calibers, however--it would seem that two would suffice. The .36 makes a good all-around small game rifle and something like a .54 makes a good rifle for everything else--if I were to add a third barrel it might be a smoothbore for shot. I have a wide range of calibers [.32,.40, .45, .50, .54, .62; and used to have a .36 and .58] and find that I almost never shoot anything except the .32 and .54 anymore.

The hooked-breech style that one finds in T/C Hawken rifles, and may be found in other rifles, will do what you ask. You probably want a rifle that uses "keys" to secure the barrel, and Green Mountain for a while made drop in replacement barrels for the T/C rifles and folks could buy the other calibers. The only drawback was that the .32-.45 caliber barrels were the same external dimensions as the larger calibers, so the smaller the caliber the heavier the barrel.

Now a .40 in a 15/16" barrel would be a right nice, steady, target gun, but not what I would like to carry in the woods over an extended period of time.

A good, used T/C Hawken from a pawn shop is what you'd want, to get back into the game for the least amount of $$ and the least amount of time to complete your project. You'd have to go with what you found, but (imho) the ideal would be a .54, and then get a .40 barrel. The .54 would let you get any large game, and the .40 would allow you small game, targets, and if a deer wandered by, it would still work.

In your question .36 and .54 would work great, but the additional .45 barrel wouldn't really give you anything extra. (BTW nothing stops you from having the smaller caliber barrel shortened a bit to remove weight, the front sight installed, and the muzzle crowned, but that is extra $$.)

If I was assembling an "everything" rifle using a changeable barrel system, I'd hunt for a T/C Hawken with a bad bore (and offer very little $$ for it), and I'd get a .40 barrel for target matches, a .54 barrel for deer, and have the bad bore reamed out to .55 smooth (28 ga), have only a front sight installed, and the gun would work in smoothbore matches as well as for small game, squirrels and turkey.

LD

Hey Smitty, So, it's all my fault, huh? Well, okay, I'll be glad to take credit for that. And your idea about a multi-caliber Hawken style rifle isn't a bad one, it's just not as good as multiple Hawken style rifles... And, because you say you want to build it, I'm guessing you want an authentically styled Hawken and not an mass produced one. That's good doin's too but your gun with a small bore barrel would get rather heavy. Usually an authentically styled Hawken will have a barrel that is 1" wide or wider. So, all of your rifle's barrels would need to be 1" wide, regardless of caliber. And, you could have the gun built or built it yourself, as a .54 with a barrel of the length you want, probably somewhere between 32" and 42". Then, after you decide what to do next, you could get another barrel, perhaps in .40 or .45 caliber, and have it breeched with the same hook breech so it would fit the tang already mounted in the rifle's stock. That smaller bored barrel could certainly be shorter in order to keep the weight and balance of the rifle acceptable. You will also be needing another ramrod to go with the smaller bored, shorter barrel. After that you might decide on getting a 20 gauge smoothbore barrel to go on the same gun. Most of the parts you'd need for such a project can be found at Track of the Wolf. Now, I wasn't kidding too much about preferring multiple guns. You could be out on a several day trip and have your lock's main spring break. Unless you have a spare spring with you, you're down and out with no other gun as a back-up. Also, a heavy barreled Hawken just wouldn't have the grace of a trim small bore rifle or the speed in handling characteristics of a nice fowler or, my favorite, the Northwest Gun. Now, there were lighter weight Hawken rifle, much like what Don Stith calls his Hawken Squirrel Rifle. Those are made with either a 7/8ths or 15/16" barrel, and tapered barrels are an option. Take a look at the kits for those at www.donstith.com. He can make you a kit for a light Hawken in any caliber from .32 to .50, with a hook breech too. I will guess that multiple breeched barrels would be available at added cost. Your idea can become a very worthy project, for sure, so if you get going on it keep us updated. At the same time, you just might get more satisfaction out of having seperate guns in those other bore sizes. Shoot sharp's the word, Mike

Good advice, all. I just add that a friend of mine has a original Hawken squirrel rifle that his gr-gr-grandad took to Arizona way back when he emigrated there from the 'east'. I have not seen it in years [we live far apart now]but I remember it having a .30something bore in about a 1" across the flats barrel. Apparently he wasn't after bear with that thing. But the rifle was sweet and balanced well offhand, if a bit heavy for the caliber. My experience has been that many original small bored rifles retained the heavy outside profiles, despite the weight.

Mike R, Yes, many of the original smallbores did have rather large barrels. (Maybe those were the old varmit rifles...) They'd get heavy when looking for cottontails up by the rimrocks. My old Leman in .36 caliber has a 7/8ths X 38" barrel and when I copied that gun my copy was made with a .40 caliber Rice barrel using the same outside dimensions. The Leman in either .36 or .40 isn't a bad gun to pack around. I wasn't trying to comment on authenticity with my remarks about barrel weight, just shooter comfort and preference. Now, how about getting in touch with your friend and seeing about getting some photos of that old Hawken to share with us. It sounds like that's another gun we should copy, for sure. Shoot sharp's the word, Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Nesbitt:
Mike R, Yes, many of the original smallbores did have rather large barrels. (Maybe those were the old varmit rifles...) They'd get heavy when looking for cottontails up by the rimrocks. My old Leman in .36 caliber has a 7/8ths X 38" barrel and when I copied that gun my copy was made with a .40 caliber Rice barrel using the same outside dimensions. The Leman in either .36 or .40 isn't a bad gun to pack around. I wasn't trying to comment on authenticity with my remarks about barrel weight, just shooter comfort and preference. Now, how about getting in touch with your friend and seeing about getting some photos of that old Hawken to share with us. It sounds like that's another gun we should copy, for sure. Shoot sharp's the word, Mike

That'd be a good idea. I'll try to find him [he has retired and I lost track of him, but think he is still in Colorado]. If I recall the rifle looked like the standard half stock percussion plains rifle that the Hawkens boys made, just small bore.

Hi guys,
I gotta say the replies to my query were very interesting, especially since they were of the positive nature get it done so to speak.Hard to say when i will get a chance to start this as i am seasonally in alaska at the moment and will be back in the pac n/w in the fall.I might possibly have a donor rifle my son has a cabelas hawken,so the next question is who made those for them? the one my son has is not the pedersoli one.I am hoping he still has his eye on all my traditional bowhunting gear so as to make a swap.Here is annother interesting question can a standard cast bullet ,like you would use in a bpcr be used? just curious. Is it practical to use pyrodex pellets in a rifle with side ignition ? well thanx again looking forward to more jawboning with all of you smitty

Smitty, You had me fooled, I guess. I thought you were really going after something authentic. About that Cabela's Hawken, you'll have to ask someone who knows something about them, perhaps at Cabela's. If they offer that rifle in various caliber, there's your source for the needed parts. About the Pyrodex pellets, no, I don't think those are the ticket. And the bullets for the blackpower cartridge rifles should stay with the blackpowder cartridges. One good reason for that is because the cartridge guns shoot bullets that are equal to the groove diameter of the barrel and muzzleloaders need a bullet that is smaller than the bore diameter of the barrel. The two just don't mix. Shoot sharp, Mike

Smitty I'm gonn'a chime in here and say that what you want to start with is a standard T/C Hawkens stock and lock for the basic platform. Now, want to make it more p/c? Someone out there has iron/steel furniture to replace all that brass. Although brass might be more p/c..depends on who you talk to! Green Mt. and some others have drop in barrels in calibers ranging from .36 up to .62 smoothbore. Want to use elongated bullets? No problem. They have fast-twist drop in barrels for that. A small cal. barrel will be heavier...unless you grab a hacksaw and prune it back! A .36cal barrel 18in. long shouldn't weigh much more than a 26in. long .50cal barrel..eh?? Want a longer .50cal. barrel in a roundball twist? (1x66) Art has a drop in .50cal. Gr. Mountain barrel 36in. long 1x66 twist in one of his T/C Hawkins. Now..about the cost. A drop-in barrel will probably run about $180. That's ready to drop in and sight it in. The upside of this is you have one gun with many barrels and choices. The downside is you can probably buy a complete gun (used) for less than the cost of said barrels. Hmmm? I have the same problem with many of the offerings today based on interchangable barrel systems. T/C and many others. Good idea...lousey economics. JMHO of course. Audie..the Oldfart..

Sourdoughsmitty,
One other type of rifle you can build is an under-hammer.You just loosen 3 set screws and swap from one barrel to another.Blue Grouse used to make up barrels from .36 caliber all the way up to a 4 bore and that is a .100 caliber!!This would be a percussion rifle and maybe not what you are looking for ,but you can google underhammer and see what you think.The bench rest match guys love under hammers.I have one and it is nice and light and I can change barrels in minutes.
J.J.

Sourdoughsmitty,
Have you thought about a swivel breech? That way you can have two calibers, or a rifle and a smoothbore, on the same gun at the same time.

I've got a plain and very sweet little Ohio halfstock with two barrels. One in .32 and the other in .45. No hooked breech things. All you do to change barrels is to tap out the one pin with a punch, remove the tang screw, and then the barrel. Reverse the process with the other barrel and you're ready for big (medium in this case) or small game. Simple.

Hi Guys,
Well when i open a can of worms they really get to wrigglin!! Mike i really do prefer period correct V/S modern which has no aesthetic appeal at all,and for the most part might as well be a modern rifle what with sabots and all. I really have liked all the help it has been very informative and educational as well. When I last used this medium you were lucky to have cva kits which for the most part were junk. My only thoughts to the cabela was that my son has one so it would be a bit of a freebie for me. I was at the sportsmans warehouse in fairbanks and notice they carry a traditions hawken kit anyone ever use these?
well enough ranting shoot straight and keep ya powder dry smitty