Friend's .58, 34", 1-72" twist barrel has a rust area about 6-10" long and about 6" above the breech. I've tried tight fitting 00000 steel wool on a bronze bore brush and it would smooth it up nicely. 3-1 oil afterwards liberally doused but a few weeks later back it comes. The barrel has few rounds through it and I suspect is not 'seasoned' or such. I suggested he shoot it, see how the patches are coming out (torn, ragged, etc.) and if the problem doesn't correct itself then we'll go to plan B. Any thoughts on removing or dealing with it? My rifles have bores that are well seasoned and never have an issue, even when not properly cleaned or cared for for short periods of time.

thats weird.
could just be bad steel, flaw in the metal or something.
not sure why it would keep coming back if its kept oiled.
ive used this stuff before called CLR. it strips off rust, of course its so strong it strips of blueing or browning too. but if you were too plug the barrel and let some of that sit in there and soak for a few hours, it would be very cleaned out.

I had a similar problem with my .50 T-C Hawken. A spot in the barrel about half way down that wouldn't allow me to get a patched roundball past it after about three shots. Bad groups too, about 10" at 25 yds.

Since I couldn't ruin a bad barrel, I took some fine valve grinding compound on a TIGHT, wet patch and passed it the entire length of the barrel until the resistance was the same the entire length. Since then I have had no trouble.

I also use no petroleum products in the bore, lubing my patches with either 1000 Wonder Lube or plain ol' lard. I also clean after shooting with the cheapest windshield washer fluid I can find, or plain warm water, using it to moisten my patches only, then wiping the bore completely dry with dry patches, relubing the bore with either lard or Wonder Lube. It doesn't hurt to pass a greased patch down the bore from time to time either.

A friend uses either bear lard or goose grease the same way and he also has no problems with rusting or hard loading.

Remember, NO degreasers (Soaps or Detergents) and NO petroleum products. Petroleum greases use soap as a gelling agent.

Three hawks.

quote:

3-1 oil afterwards liberally doused but a few weeks later back it comes.

AAAAAAAHHH

It is a household lubricant it is not a gun oil or a rust preventative. (I know I once thought the same as you..., and WD-40 isn't for internal parts either no matter what the company says!)

3-n-1 will shellac over time so bad it has frozen many a gun action. I bought a "worthless" Colt Detecive Special in .38, as it was all siezed up...., dunked it in the solvent tank without the grips, and eight hours later watched the brown goo of dissolved 3-n-1 drip out of it. Ready to fire, and a bargain at $50.

Try Ballistol or even cheap olive oil. Lap the barrel as above, and apply proper oil.

LD

Olive oil will gum over time too.

I haven't used it yet, but what about automatic transmission fluid? Won't gum, prevents rust. Very cheap. Buddy o' mine uses it on oilstones.

I think animal fats have a fair amount of water in them? Also salts? I do like goose grease, but it will harden too.

The military uses Breakfree They call it CLP. I use it for all my guns. Also Rem-oil works well and does not seem to gum up.

P.

I've been using Hoppe's oil forever on the modern stuff and some of the BP stuff, and borebutter on the other BP's. Just recently the Hoppe's ran out and I just grabbed the 3-1. NOW I know what's up! I'm pretty happy with the borebutter on my regular shooters, I'll pass along the 3-1 info.

Makes sense now, I spend the time lapping out the rust and a few weeks later it's back. The things you learn on this forum....!

Animal fats defininatly have salts (bad). I would try acetone on persistant rusting problem. Followed by alcohol. Then Bore butter (I like bore butter as a regular lube/rust preventer for all my guns. I also, when finished cleaning, roll up an oily or borebuttered ( I like bore butter...can you tell yet?) and plug the muzzle with it. Rolled patch must be thick enough to mostly seal the bore. When ready to shoot pull the "plug" and set it aside until gun is cleaned again the plug the bore with it again... Works for me.
Good luck Weird problem you got there. of course, if this doesen't work....you could send me the BBl and I would be happy to bore it out to a slightly larger caliber and re-rifle it ...... for a very nominal fee

If you want to get the rust out so you can start fresh, use naval jelly to clean it out of your bore. It will remove all the rust, but the pitting the rust has caused will trap fouling and start the rust process all over again if you don't stay on top of keeping it clean, and oiled. Naval jelly will not harm the steel when used as directed. It will just remove the rust.

Hmmmm...fellers I'm gonn'a poke my ample nose in here and offer up some thoughts. First and foremost never assume that a "tight spot" in the bore is rust or build-up of anything. Fellers there's a hole drilled from breech to muzzle. It ain't always the same size the full length of the barrel. They's tight spots..and loose spots.. the whole length of it's travels. A barrel might be from 10in. pistol length to 50+in. in length. An ya'll figger it'll be the exact same dia. the entire length? Barrels ayre never perfectly straight..they curve up, down and left and right. Stocks twist em' in any direction. Metals can vary over the length of the barrel..happens to the best of 'em. So ye got a tight spot..so what? Lap the bore with your own personal choice of..whatever. Valve-grinding compound, scrubby pads, steel-wool, "shoot it out" gizmos. One thing I will warn ye. Using caustic solvents or solutions and stripping that steel barrel "clean-as-a-whistle" ain't a solution. It's the problem! And once ye've stripped the metal with all that junk ye'll not stop the rust with W.D.40 or olive oil or Ballistol. Yer creating a problem by your own hand. Look to the past my friends and read what was written. No where in my travels have I read where the Longhunters boiled water and soap to clean their arms..ner used alcohol....Windex..Ballistol..peroxide or any of the other items brought forth in this post. JMHO of course...Audie..the Oldfart.

Some folks just won't trust the old stuff, so I mentioned Balistol as an OTC product. I like sweet oil myself, or sweet oil mixed with beeswax to turn it into a grease.

LD

quote:

Originally posted by Pichou:
Olive oil will gum over time too.

I haven't used it yet, but what about automatic transmission fluid? Won't gum, prevents rust. Very cheap. Buddy o' mine uses it on oilstones.

I think animal fats have a fair amount of water in them? Also salts? I do like goose grease, but it will harden too.

ATF is mostly synthetic sperm oil with antifoaming agents. Probably might not do any harm. It might be a good idea to find out what it's made out of.

Three Hawks

Lap out the spot with 3M scotch bright and oil , maybe with a mix of fine Clover lapping compound. Then clean, clean , clean with warm or cool soapy water and lube, lube , lube up with any synthetic preservative.

Like CRC power lube or a good gun oil.

Steel wool leaves fine particles in the bore that rust. Imagine that!

good luck

Fellers I may have come off a bit harsh sounding in that last post but this subject has been covered many times in the past. Use the Search button in this site and type in "favorite cleaning solution" and ye'll get enough reading to occupy yer time for a week or so. In particular ya want to read the posts by Loyalist Dave..aka. L.D. concerning this very topic. I've met L.D. a time er' 2 and picked his brain. He shoots often and researches his subjects well. And he's been doin' this since Hector was a pup. A long time back I asked him for his "special gun cleanin' concoction" and he guv it to me free of charge! He said..."Water...just plain and simple room temp. water. Not steaming hot water...no additives, no solvents, no nuthin'. Just..water! Black powder is comprised of 3 simple water-soluable ingredients...charcoal, sulpher and salt-peter. Run a series of water soaked patches downbore..then dry it with dry patches. When the patches go from black to light gray..stop. Simple as that! Now run a patch lightly wet with sweet oil (olive oil) thru the bore and go do something else for the rest of the day!" My first response was..."Dave..there's got to be more to it than that! What about "Moose Milk!"(water soluable machinast oil/Murphys Oil Soap and hydrogen peroxide) ...and Special Secret Concotions? What about...Black Powder Solve and Doc Whoevers Excellent Muzzleloader Cleaning Stuff?" Folks...Loyalist Dave is a "robust man"! Mind ye I'm no slouch at 6ft. 3in. tall and 250lbs...but when Dave snatches ye up by the lapels and shoves his nose into yer beak and growls..."What part of WATER don't you understand?"..ye take notice! Since then I've used nuthin' but plain old water and lots of patches. I don't have a problem with rust. I've left guns loaded for 6 months (and more...) at a time..still no rust. Fill the pan with powder..it goes boom. Every time. Loads just as easy for the next shot. JMHO of course. Audie..the Oldfart..

Hey Guys, I've got some Royal Purple Gun Oil that I started putting my barrels over a year ago and one of my barrels I've let it sit over 6 months with no rust showing at all! NONE and those barrels are in my basement, even ater I shoot awhile and clean as normal I put the Royal Purple Gun Oil in and leave it a lone....months later still no rust. This is the stuff the Navy uses on those big guns at sea to keep them from rusting. BTW...I use Casey's 77 to clean with first, I think that's the name of the stuff. Then final coat of Gun Oil.

Well Audie, I sure agree with you. Wash it out with plenty of water,dry it and swab with sweet oil. Or some beeswax/oil mix if I'm gonna leave it a good while. Vaya Con Dios, Boys! Stumpy

The question asked, pertained to rust. Rust that keeps coming back in one particular area. Not what is the best cleaner, and not about tight spots. To remove rust, use a rust remover, then you can be concerned about what cleaners to use in the future, and tight spots ect. If you have a tight spot that you can feel, then you got yourself a poor made barrel, and the only correction is a proper lapping. Not steel wool, or Scotch brite pads, but a real lap job, done with a lead lap, and compound, plus the knowledge, and skill to get it done right.

quote:

Originally posted by WBE:
The question asked, pertained to rust. Rust that keeps coming back in one particular area. Not what is the best cleaner, and not about tight spots. To remove rust, use a rust remover, then you can be concerned about what cleaners to use in the future, and tight spots ect. If you have a tight spot that you can feel, then you got yourself a poor made barrel, and the only correction is a proper lapping. Not steel wool, or Scotch brite pads, but a real lap job, done with a lead lap, and compound, plus the knowledge, and skill to get it done right.

I've lapped many bores of rifles, shotguns and an unknown amount of refrigeration compressors, small engines, diesel fuel injectors/pumps and hydraulic cylinders using the method I described above.
I've even used cylinder hones on shotgun barrels with kerosene as the lubricant.

A tight spot in a bore any bore can be caused from a hot spot or where the tooling was stopped, chattered or lost tool coolant.

Rust that re-appears is best neutralized then polish up the area.
Using a rust remover will not only remove the metal/rust but also affect the rest of the bore.

Lead lapping is for poorly made barrels and for folks who can't clean a firearm properly.

The barrel described above tells me that the gun has been fired then reloaded with the charge left in for some time so to create a rough spot just ahead of the load.
Second idea is a spider made a home at that area in the barrel.
Third, evaporation and condensation after the scalding hot water bath.

Either way something was left behind to create the rust.

bpb

You will have no problem useing gun oil or other petro lubes for rust protection if it is cleaned out well before loading, todays steel barrels are different in their wants and needs than the iron barrels of yesterday.

quote:

Lead lapping is for poorly made barrels and for folks who can't clean a firearm properly

That is an interesting statement. I think many modern benchrest competitors might have a vastly different opinion on that.