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Cabelas Blue Ridge rifle help from Loyalist Dave?
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Booshway
Picture of captchee
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Looking more closely at the link you posted , I do not believe that any of the rifles show , carry the fluting . What im seeing “or think im see” is a shallow , if any “ concave carving along a relief . From a distance this can look like what is done on your rifle . But IMO if you look at the photo albums on the web site , you will see 3 more gun . Those all carry the same raised relief , derived from an incise carving not a fluting.
That type of carving is what I remember seeing on the two rifles I talked about earlier and what shumway does show .

So IMO what you are seeing in the first rifle show “ I believe the one your referring to “
Is a shaping that would look like this from the front .
Alittle more flat in the carving though . But I don’t think it’s a flute

 
Posts: 687 | Location: Payette ,Idaho | Registered: 23 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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real quick , here is a photo i just grabbed to show you what im getting at .
this is actualy a raised flat caused by the carving .
this is what i think you seeing on that Lehigh


ill have to take a closer look at the stock i have out in the shop . but there may be the possability that you can still do the same thing by doing what your saying . IE reducing the depth of the flute , then doing a relief line along the edge . you will still probably end up with something along the lines of the drawing i showed TG though
 
Posts: 687 | Location: Payette ,Idaho | Registered: 23 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Thanks for the pics Cap' my gun and some others I have seen at events have had a considerably exagerated "flute" (depth and width) that is what probably caught my eye and seemed unpleasant astheticaly. The smaller moulding is much easier on the eye as was mine after I worked it down and added a simple incise line above it that terminated in a small curl/scroll at both ends, and again good points on how to go about the "tracing authenticity) concept. The trend is so often gear toward putting the horse before the cart due to taking advice that sounds like what one wants it to be from forum sources, we all learn at different rates and have all had to learn some things the hard way. We should try to find the best path which is not always the fastest or easiest and not start with what we want /like and then try to squeeze it into history somehow, somewhere, sometime. Going into a purchase or build well informed is the absolute best path there is IMHO, which includes using what we know based on current research not speculation with some exceptions to some ythimhgs which have enough informaytion to make GOOD speculative interpretations and this is a path that need be traveled very cautiously...again only if historical accuracy is the goal, if not it does not matter what we use or don't use.

PS on my gun and some others I have seen the "flute" actually started at the outside of the flats your drawing show at the bottom which form the rr channel and arch up to the beginning of the moulding you show above, which makes a prety deep/wide flute/moulding if that makes sense, i drew a pic which is pretty crumby but does show the relationship and pretty much the scale of the flute to thre rr channel on mine and some others I have seen (talk about a bad artist)but it should give one the concept I was trying to explain, this is similar to the stock you show but was more exagertated on some it seems

This message has been edited. Last edited by: trg1,
 
Posts: 272 | Registered: 12 June 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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Captchee,I was looking at the photo I posted to you and you might be right.That is the bad thing with looking at photos it is really hard to tell unless they have a close-up of the detail.If you look right behind the nose-cap where the detail starts it looks like a flute.But as you look further back it looks like a incised line.Like you say it is really hard to pick up these details in the books that have photos of originals.I recently purchased a JP beck "In the White" that the builder said was close to final measurements but could be tweaked further to get it better.I just don't know enough about this and other Longrifles architecture to even know where it needs the final tweaks.To my untrained eye it looks great to me.I am a fairly good woodworker,but for me to look at a picture in a book and try to duplicate that on my rifle is tough.Maybe when I start it I'll shoot some photos to you and maybe you can help me with what it needs.If you could get me a general picture of what my Pedersoli should look like with the shallower flute and relief line along the edge I would really appreciate it.A close up pic is worth a thousand words LOL!Thanks again.
 
Posts: 38 | Registered: 21 July 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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most certianly ill help all i can .
here is a set od shumways profiles .
what i do when working over a exsisting production gun is to take a good look at what i have to deal with and ask myself can i get a proper profile .
i can tell you that i can infact get any one of these profiles out of the Hatfield stock i showed you

This message has been edited. Last edited by: captchee,
 
Posts: 687 | Location: Payette ,Idaho | Registered: 23 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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I recall now what I cam up against the thimbles were thick and on ,my gun were actual inlet "deeply" into the "flats" on the bottom of the one photo you show so I could not carry the lines down to a point so to speak along the
rr chanel or the thimbles would stand way prond of the channel, hard to explain but the whole thing was just funky I could have used real thin yhimbles probably but did not want to spend that much time on it.Anyway it's not my gun anymore so I don't care, thanks for the explainations and decriptions. I am certain that you have and will be able to help Prarrieofthedog clean his up as he sees fit as it is not the same gun that I had, and he will have a nice gun that will give him years of service.
 
Posts: 272 | Registered: 12 June 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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One of the things I do on top of collecting books , I also collect photos .
The bigger auction sites often have endless lists of guns. I take advantage of those lists and the photos they provide , so I end up with files of rifles , smoothbores , SXS , English , German , French ……
I also have another file that I keep photos of guns people have built .
You want all the photos you can get of each gun . don’t miss any one that’s available . You may not think something like a TG photo is important . But often it is because it shows more then just the TG , you just have to look
By doing this I can then set back and clearly see where artistic allowances have been made when compared to originals .
Then when I set down to build a gun . I make copies of the photos and keep them close at hand for reference .
Case in point . The LePage I did here a few months ago . I literally have 100’s of different LePage photos ranging from very high end guns to the most simple
Why ?
Well because the more information you have , the more you can piece the puzzle together as to how things were done.
Take this photo of a LePage , what do you see ?

Well at first your taken back by the workmanship . But you have to look harder and forget what the photo was taken to show . When you do that you start to see things that will benefit you
Look into the photo . Notice how we can just see alittle of the transition on the lock side . We can also see that this gun has not only a hook type breech but also a patent breech .
It also tell s us how the stock transitions not only to the barrel but also from the barrel to the lock mortise.
From this one photo I was also able to reconstruct the adjustable rear sight even though I had never seen a photo of how that site works . While I cant be 100% sure I did it just as this gun . Im bet im very close
What im getting at here is that there is more to it then just looking at something and trying to copy it . Set back and collect information to the point you can build the completed gun in your mind. Then look at what you will be working on . When you can see it in finished form, before you ever start the work , then its time to start recreating .

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Posts: 687 | Location: Payette ,Idaho | Registered: 23 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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yep TG sometimes you just have to deal with what you have . somthings you just cant change once they are done . very much like the RR channel i was talking about before . you just have to deal with it being what it is .
 
Posts: 687 | Location: Payette ,Idaho | Registered: 23 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Posts: 687 | Location: Payette ,Idaho | Registered: 23 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Fascinating, men. You've got me about ready to study Hawken architecture in case I get up the nerve to have a go at trying to get a Pecatonica stock for my GM barrel (replacing a T/C) into a closer resemblance; not claiming it will be correct stock-wise (probably nowhere close), just 'better' (hopefully). Would be my first ever effort except for a Japanese kit back in the 70s. You've made the study sound very interesting.

No intention to hijack the thread, just saying thanks for the teaching.

Fiddlesticks


As long as there's Limb Bacon a man'll eat! (But mebbe not his wife...)
 
Posts: 4816 | Location: Buffalo River Country | Registered: 23 October 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Its all part of the learning process fiddlesticks.
The more examples you have to look at the better you will be at avoiding the pitfalls and the better you will get at recognizing discrepancies .
Speaking of which , it seems I have confused a couple of you with the mention of TG and my conversation and how it relates to this topic .

Today a lot of times when we go to a web site where these types of guns are sold , we read a description. a lot of times that description isn’t just about the gun but also includes some time of reference to history . Ie a given school or time frame .
All to often though the guns fall short with issues that would exclude them from that time frame. Sometimes it’s a small issue . Other times is a big one that’s compounded by later architecture , wrong hardware for the gun or period the gun is being implied to fit into
Now this isn’t to say the gun isn’t a nice piece . The case may very well be that it’s a wonderful gun .
What im saying is sometimes we have to set back and wonder what the person who wrote the description was smoking.
Case in point . I once saw a very nice SXS late flintlock , being sold as representing an early period French piece . Yet the photos showed a long tanged standing breech . The butt plate also carried a short heal extension. Both common to very much later examples.
Not to mention the stock carried English architecture and locks that did not even come close to being French or for that mater even in the described period .

So we could set back , e-mail the seller and explain why their description is wrong .
But frankly that does little good because they simply don’t care . The people who would end up buying that piece wont be the ones who see the problems . The ones they are aiming at are folks who don’t know and thus are willing to drop cash because someone says if fits what they are looking for . Never mind it doesn’t .
But if a person would spend even an hour or two , researching , even just doing a quick google photo search , they would have found that the French piece they were wanting looked more like this


.
By doing even a quick Google photo search we can then understand that a TC hawkens has about as much to do with a true hawkens styled rifle as a colt 1851 has to do with a 1911

So if we jump back to what prairieofthedog is doing . We then see that while he may or maynot be able to get the shaping he wants , there are other things that will help to better give the impression he is looking for . Sometimes its as simple as gathering the correct hardware. Maybe a different butt plate , side plate , TG or even adding a patchbox that’s common to a given style . See by doing that your adding to the influences of the piece . The more of those influence you can achieve, the better the piece will resemble what your wanting .

This message has been edited. Last edited by: captchee,
 
Posts: 687 | Location: Payette ,Idaho | Registered: 23 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Thanks Cap'. I'm getting it. Lawzy! - that piece makes a fella drool!

Not sure, though, what you mean by TG. I thought at first you meant 'our tg' here at the 'Fire. He and I go back a long way (the 'Fire and emails) and I'm careful to read all his stuff. In all honesty, though, I've never paid much attention to the Gunsmithing forum before, unless I saw something from tg, or Bookie, or Hoot Al.

My only hope for the T/C is to bring it 'just a little closer', gain some experience, and have a good deer rifle. Perhaps make another leap forward later on.

Praireofthedog, please forgive me for jumping in like this and best wishes with your project.

Fiddlesticks


As long as there's Limb Bacon a man'll eat! (But mebbe not his wife...)
 
Posts: 4816 | Location: Buffalo River Country | Registered: 23 October 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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Fiddlesticks,don't worry about me,ask away.We all are on these forums for entertainment and hopefully learn something.I just think it is great the way Capt.and others take a lot of time to help or at least try to point us in the right direction.
 
Posts: 38 | Registered: 21 July 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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quote:
Not sure, though, what you mean by TG


Fiddlingsticks, I'm pretty sure that is "trigger guard" abreviated... Shoot sharp, Mike
 
Posts: 3531 | Location: Pacific Northwest | Registered: 25 October 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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'Fiddlingsticks'? That's a new one - and correct! Haw!

I've been fiddling around in the shop some, fiddling with inletting (not good, yet), fiddling with tools; practicing fiddling, you might say, with mostly uncertain notes. But I can see where it could fiddle its way into a sawer's affections.

I'll bet you're right about the TG. Hadn't crossed my mind. Thanks.

Continuingtofiddle'sticks


As long as there's Limb Bacon a man'll eat! (But mebbe not his wife...)
 
Posts: 4816 | Location: Buffalo River Country | Registered: 23 October 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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So am I a correct trigger guard or not?....TG
 
Posts: 272 | Registered: 12 June 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Sorry fella’s
Maybe this will help
When I was talking about hardware and said “TG” I was indeed talking about Trigger guard .

But in my last post I was referring to conversations that TG1 and I have had concerning rifles that are stated to be one thing , or fit into a given time period .
but in fact many times these guns have the wrong hardware , style ……… for that suggested time frame. Thus my example of the French SXS that in fact wasn’t even close to the original one from the same time period that I posted above
 
Posts: 687 | Location: Payette ,Idaho | Registered: 23 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Always we see PC TG, tg!

Fiddlesticks


As long as there's Limb Bacon a man'll eat! (But mebbe not his wife...)
 
Posts: 4816 | Location: Buffalo River Country | Registered: 23 October 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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