Today, I went out and shot my smoothbore - lately I have been having lots of failure to fire ( not a flash in the pan) with lock not sparking or the sparks not hitting where they need to - ignite the powder in the pan. I have only had one Flash in the pan in three years - so generally when the pan flashes - she goes boom.

Today with a new french amber flint - I had 40% failure (6 of 10) with bevel up -- turned it around with a new edge and bevel down - I had a 30 % failure to fire (7 of 10). But, on the bright side - I never missed the targets.

I have taken the lock apart - polished everything - checked everything I know to check. tempered the frizzen per instructions from muzzleloading smith.

My observations - with the bevel up the battery opens but the sparks hit the front of the pan - or shoulder. This is the most reliable way to get the cover to open, but not necessarily the best way to get the gun to fire.

With the bevel down - many times the flint drags and gets stuck with the pan 3/4 open but sparks are not getting to the powder in the pan. When the pan opens - the sparks generally hit the center of the pan and ignite the powder.

I have polished all the springs and I am working on getting the battery polished up . Just driving me crazy - I am supposed to go on a deer hunt mid month of October and although I am sure that if I get a shot and the gun goes off - I will likely be successful in bringing down a deer. I am not happy with the amount of klatches I have been getting.

The lock is an L&R Queen Anne - the sparks (viewed in a dark room) are bright orange/yellow

Any ideas?

Dan'l Hickham

Dan i was just going over my Caywood smoothbore and i was having the same problem my frizzen wouldn't open all the way tried everything then i back ed off the frizzen screw and the problem was solved maybe if you try that it would work for you

Dan, With the lock tightly held in the stock, be sure the pan cover isn't rubbing on the side of the barrel. Shoot sharp, Mike

Just wondering if you've fooled with the position of the flint, as in seating it a scoosh further into the cock? Could it be out just a hair far and causing your flint to bind against the frizzen face when tripped? With my LR Queen Anne, I use 7/8" English flints and basically fiddle with adjusting them in the cock until the flint pointed straight down into the center of the pan at the end of the throw.

Try a shorter flint. If needed, notch a groove for the cock screw on the back edge of the flint so the front edge can move back. I had the same kind of problems until I used a shorter flint.

The Queen Anne lock reproduced is really a refined military lock. First, the flint needs to be held in the jaws with a piece of lead. Then you may want to slightly change the angle of attack of the flint, by placing an additional sliver of thin lead underneath the flint at its base where it meets the cock screw. The flint needs to be bevel up, when you add the thin bit of metal. This will modify the angle of the flint downwards. If it shows improvement, use a slightly thicker piece of lead and repeat the experiment. You may need to adjust the angle of the cock, but that shouldn't be done until you have worked on the angle of the flint inside the jaws.

LD

I had two QA locks in two guns (a rifle and a smoothbore) that worked quite well with 7/8 flints,bevel up primed with 3f,3f in the bore. These were tuned by a top notch lock man, I guess nobody told my locks they were military and needed to use lead wraps...I have tried it and found no noticable difference from using leather.

This problem, apparently, has just materialized out of nowhere? L&R frizzens are through hardened, or should be, so it shouldn't go dead so suddenly.

What have you changed, in regard to assembly after cleaning?

You mention french amber flints. The ones I tried were kinda crumbly and didn't spark well.

Do English flints work any better than french flints?

Have you tried Misouri white flints by Rich Pierce?

What about lubrication? Gotta oil those locks. Chainsaw bar oil or a waxy lube on the foot of the frizzen/frizzen spring might help, in addition to oiling the pivot screw.

Did you get something like WD40 on the face of the frizzen?

This one has me stumped. There has to be a logical explanation for a frizzen to, suddenly, go dead, but unless L&R case hardened a batch of bad castings, I don't know what it would be.

God bless

I never use WD 40 - I use Dextron ATF on the metal parts except I never put oil on the frizzen face. The frizzen still sparks - just doesn't always throw the sparks into the pan - I figure I have shot about 5000 rds through it so far, perhaps more. No other changes that I can think of.

Dan'l

Dan'l,
Another county heard from, but I like the idea of making sure the frizzen screw isn't screwed in too tightly, and that the frizzen isn't rubbing on the barrel, as mentioned above. This is a puzzler, but that means it's probably a really simple solution.

Dick

quote:

These were tuned by a top notch lock man, I guess nobody told my locks they were military and needed to use lead wraps

Well gee, if all locks were properly tuned then they wouldn't need the wraps.

LD

Here's a dumb question........ Are your flints too small? Are you adjusting the flints so they are about 1/8" from the frizzen when in the safe cock position? If it is set back too far, this will cause the situations you describe, too.

Both Mike and Dave make valid points, too.

Hoot AL

Fellers, I know some folks has had good luck with the amber flints but I ain't one of them. Leon/Volate swears by them...I swear at them. I grab up a handful of black English flints at erey event I go to and look for the flattest, thinnest flints I can find. Yup...I said thin! The fat flints never seem to stay tight in the cock and they get dull faster. The thin ones seem to "self-knap" if that makes any sense. Bevel up/down depends on the lock and the flint. Ya just have to try it an see what works. Now I use leather to wrap the flint. Tried lead and I can't get the flint to stay in the jaws. (by the way it's tanned buffalo hide..from an un-named source on account of he'll git a swelled head if I divuldge it's the only leather I use... and no I ain't sharin' any of it) Use soft glove-leather..not any hard/slippery/shiney tanned leather. An don't be afraid to gnaw a jagged edge on them flints. That sparks better than a knife edge. JMHO. Audie..the Oldfart..

I have tried Rich's flints they are very good. But, they are not as good in this lock as the black english flints. The french ambers are about the same as Rich's just more expensive. I am using the recommended size mostly - 7/8 X 1" but even then all the way back in the cock they are more than 1/8" off the frizzen face at half cock.

I have never been to an event that sold flints lately - Track of the Wolf is out of the size of BEF that I need.

It has been suggested that I work on the frizzen spring (perhaps to strong) but have no idea what to do with that.

Dan'l

KH, there's a thread on the forum titled 'Shatterin Flints' that addresses reducing the mainspring strength mainly, but does talk about frizzen spring some towards the end. Were I going to try it, step one would be to buy a new spring in case the strength adjustment went too far. And, over on the American Longrifle Forum there's a thread "I Hate this Lock" that, once you get past some frustrated venting about L&R locks has some tune up suggestions.

However, if your lock has just recently started acting up, it doesn't seem to me like spring strength would be the culprit. Is there any discernible pattern, like the first 2 or 3 shots of a new flint edge always flash, and then reliability goes out the window? Did tempering the frizzen have any effect? Do you know anyone with the same lock where you could swap frizzens temporarily to see if the problem migrates with the frizzen?

Or, you could try to get ahold of LC Rice and see if it's feasible to send him your lock for tuning before your upcoming hunt.

Good luck, SCL.

Almost sounds like a geometry issue. The angle at which the flint strikes the frizzen.

Try chucking your lock in a padded vise, and using a protractor, check the angle of the bottom of the flint in relation to the frizzen, as the flint makes contact with the frizzen.

This can take several hands, in addition to the vise, so be aware that frustration can override ones desire to find this type of problem and fix it right.

Ideally, the flint should strike the frizzen at a 60 degree angle roughly 1/2-1/3, or so, from the top of the frizzen

Also check where the frizzen cams over, in relation to the edge of the flint.

Ideally, the frizzen should kick over, on its own, as the flint passes the bottom of the face of the frizzen. IMHO, too many frizzens/frizzen springs don't have the right geometry, right out of the box.

Things can be done to correct those issues, but one needs to determine if there is, indeed, an issue in those areas.

God bless

quote:

I am using the recommended size mostly - 7/8 X 1" but even then all the way back in the cock they are more than 1/8" off the frizzen face at half cock.

That is the size flint and situation my Queen Anns were in and they worked well, wonder if you got the one made Friday afternoon?

For adjusting the pressure on the frizzen spring, I prefer shortening and polishing the frizzen foot where it contacts the spring. Much easier and foolproof than mucking with the spring.

That's the beauty of a flinter!!! No two locks are exactly the same and the problems that some flintlocks have are unique to that lock. Work through it but please post your results so others have one more remedy to try.