Guys, I have almost exclusively used TruOil for a sealer coat when I've finished stocks. I find however, now I am finishing my first ever maple stock. All in the past have been walnut.

Upon applying the 2nd coat of tru oil, when you're supposed to lightly sand small sections at a time to create a "slurry" to be later wiped into the grain of the wood, I find that I cannot prevent actually sanding through the stain down to the bare wood thereby ruining the finish job I'm trying to accomplish. I'm trying to be genteel, but to no avail.

Never ran into this with walnut, but with the darker wood I guess it wasn't noticeable. Anybody else ever run into this before? I'm having a time getting this the way I want it...

I used a mix of BLO/marine spar varnish/turp and stain the wood darker than I want it then work the finish down and seal as I bring the color back, I used to use one of those pads scotch brite or something like that I have not done a Maple stock for quite a while and the last Walnut stock was pretty much done with scrapers (French Fusil)Somewherre in cyber land are instructions for the method I used which are posted by Fred Miller but I cannot find the link, it used to be connected to the old MLML ten years ago.

To Dave, Like you I have used tru oil almost exclussivly on my stocks for years, Walnut and yes Maple too. I usually have to use 5 to 6 Light coats on my maple stocks to get to finish I prefer. I like a well finished stock with a soft patina too it, rather than a glossy finish. Just keep your individual coats light and keep going untill you get the finish you prefer. The tru oil will get it done for you. yours arkansawwind

Sorry, guys, but Tru-oil is for kids. Linseed oil is the best route to take. Cheers, Bookie

Linseed oil.Once a day for a week,once a week for a month,once a month for a year,then every year.It's all about maintaning the protection provided by the finish.Hard woods take awhile to get what you want both in finish and stain color.One thing I found is dont sand hard woods to glass smooth,that way the wood has bite and can absorb stain and finish better.
My take on finish is "What ever works for you and your willing to do" I touch flash some stocks just cause I can and it sometimes comes out, some times it get's sanded out.!!!!!!. What ever finish I use I warm the stock first,dont know why just what an old uncle told me to do so !!!!!I know a guy who uses paste shoe polish and wouldn't use anything else.What ever floats your stick.

OK Bookie, you're the top o' the heap around here on gun building...so why's LO the only way to go? I am all ears. Thanks

Evenin', Dave. I am a curmudgeon, 1st Class. That means I'm opinionated. [ask Fiddlesticks] Well, in my humble opinion: linseed oil was probably the single most popular finish used on firearms way back when and even now. When used together, aqua fortis stain and linseed oil are very forgiving and many fubars can be easily corrected even though you have some oil on it already. Takes a little elbow grease, but you can do it and usually no one can tell you had to redo it, plus you're not scratching polymers and other synthetic stuff with sandy paper that if you're not careful, the next application of the stuff will seal and preserve those tell-tale scratches forever. Linseed oil is not exactly a water proofer, more of a retardant, but it does allow the wood to 'breathe'. Tru-oil is a sealant. You get the inside of the barrel channel saturated out hunting them pesky raindeers and see how long it takes to completely dry out. Tru-oil has it's place, but in my really, really humble opinion, has no place on muzzleloaders. Now you can beat me up if you want, but I won't change my mind on this issue. If you need something that dries quicker, by all means go buy a little jar of Lin-speed. It is linseed oil and some japan driers thrown in for good measure. It's forgiving, too. Cheers, Bookie

quote:

Originally posted by Dave:
OK Bookie, you're the top o' the heap around here on gun building...so why's LO the only way to go? I am all ears. Thanks

Not Bookie by here goes:
If you home cook your own oil to thicken, darken and speed the drying you can do complete filled finishes on American walnut in a week in summer with hot sun, maybe 2 weeks in winter.. Maybe 10 coats total and very little time working on the finish.
If you mix it with Grumbachers Oil Painters Medium III it makes a great top coat. Basically a HC soft varnish.

From a post of mine on another site:
===============
Buy a gallon of boiled oil, I prefer Parks brand if it can be found and some Japan Drier.
Buy an old deep fat fryer at a second hand store.

Pick up some limestone a few pebbles 3-4 about the size of my thumb work.

DO THIS OUTSIDE. It is fully as dangerous as a deep fat fryer used for cooking. Keep all living things away from it.
Put the oil in the fryer with the limestone after its been whacked with a hammer once or twice to make it finer.
Put in a tablespoon or so of Japan Drier.
Put the fryer on high. Oil will begin to smoke when near max temp. Keep it there for 10-20 minutes then shut off and allow to cool. This will darken and thicken the oil.
Decant into jars.
For fill oil for walnut I leave about 1/2 the oil in the cooker and reheat for an hour or so to thicken it more.
The limestone reduces the acid level in the oil to reduce drying time. This oil can be used to make HC oil cloth too but the acids will rot the cloth so acid reduction is important.
Some add lead acetate etc to the oil to redden it somewhat and reduce drying time in high humidity.
On walnut this oil will allow 2 coats a day if put in direct sunlight. I apply heavy for walnut then rub off the excess to fill the grain. 0000 steel wool will work on uncarved guns. Take it off when it get rubbery and will not pull from the grain. This stuff will work as fill when very thick and I put a cloth over a pint of it to allow air access to thicken it more.
It will also enhance the figure in wood far better than modern clear finishes will.
Initial coat should be the thin oil with 1 in 4 parts (+-) turpentine that has been aged in a shallow pan 2-3 days to allow it to pickup oxygen. This will speed drying of the oil that soaks into the wood.

I mix the oil 50-50 with Grumbacher's Oil Painting Medium III for final stock finish. Makes a soft oil varnish than resists water better than straight oil. I do not do built up finishes.
=================

I can finish maple that looks pretty darned good in 2 coats.
First teh grumbacher mix cut with aged turp. All the stock will absorb.
Let it set for 15 minutes then wipe with a rag.
Place in sun and wipe again in 15 minutes some some will weep out of the pores in the wood. Turn a couple of times so it gets good sun exposure.
Rub on a thin coat of the Grumbacher mix with no turp added the next day. Again expose to direct sunlight.
Let dry a day or 2 then rub with hand or soft cloth.
Just did this with a pistol and am very pleased.
BUT I sanded it very very smooth (600 grit) bore stain with very weak nitric stain (weak in acid high in iron).
Sure sanding this smooth is not HC but if you used storebought stuff like Tru-oil or such its not very HC either and the thin watery plastic finishes and synthetic stains are even worse.
There is no reason on earth to put 20 coats of finish on a gun stock or to use any kind of abrasive on a stained stock.
Do you really think people making guns for a living spent a month on the finish?
Once a friend explained oil making to me and I learned how to use it my search for stock finish was over. Next thing will be high oil content varnishes cooked about the same way.

Looking for a "brown varnish" like that on the Bridger Hawken in Helena, MT.
Dan




This is a European walnut stock filled with home cooked oil and top coated with the Grumbacher mix. Has been carried probably 40-50 miles in 2 years of hunting plus a lot fo shooting when this was taken and has had no further finish applied in that time.

OK, Bookie, that's a good explanation for me. Now, what's the diff between LO & BLO? Or is there any? I hear about BLO regularly but, again have to show my novice status and say that I need further instruction. Thanks again...

Dan, appreciate that explanation as well. That is a mighty fine looking pistol, not to mention the finish, also. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave:
OK, Bookie, that's a good explanation for me. Now, what's the diff between LO & BLO? Or is there any? I hear about BLO regularly but, again have to show my novice status and say that I need further instruction. Thanks again...

Dan, appreciate that explanation as well. That is a mighty fine looking pistol, not to mention the finish, also. Thanks.

"Boiled linseed oil" you buy at the hardware store is not boiled. The driers are mixed cold. "Raw linseed oil" has no driers added at all. NEITHER ARE STOCK FINISH AS PURCHASED.

BLO as used by gun makers was boiled to mix the driers, thicken the oil to a greater or lesser extent and to improve the color (some of the driers also will color the oil when its heated) which really improves the look of wood.
Acid neutralizing the oil is important too. The organic acids slow drying and if making oil cloth the acids may destroy the cloth in a year or less. So home cooking the store bough "boiled linseed oil" improves the stuff in many ways. Home cooking raw linseed will work but requires more driers to be added since the raw oil has none.

Nor is it necessary to actually boil the oil. Heating to max temp of a deep fat fryer will work if done as I describe in a previous post.

Making varnishes may require more heat depending on the resin used.

Dan

This is a soft reddish brown varnish in an original S HAwken.
This was a high oil content varnish and was used pretty extensively back to Colonial times on gunstocks.
But I do not believe it was used in highly figures stocks. Its almost a paint.

Dan

I have really like the addition of some marine spar varnish the (real stuff) that Fred Miller advises I think it adds to the water protection factor and gives a bit harder end finish,I have never like Tru-oil myself it just always seems ...plasticky....is that a word?

quote:

Tru-oil is for kids.

I'm just a kid at heart... Shoot sharp, Mike

quote:

Originally posted by trg:
I have really like the addition of some marine spar varnish the (real stuff) that Fred Miller advises I think it adds to the water protection factor and gives a bit harder end finish,I have never like Tru-oil myself it just always seems ...plasticky....is that a word?

Tru oil dries too fast and generally looks like truoil.
I was told what it really was once but forgot and lack the ambition to look it up.
When you start adding modern vanishes you get into toxic fumes from the solvents used.

Dan

Dan has provided astute words of wisdom comcerning 'linseed oil' and I need not attempt to expound upon it further. The methodology is profound as well. IMHUMBLRO, that pistol of his is absolutely beautiful and I wish I was just half as good as him....in more ways than one. [That CIB on his avitar wasn't given out for perfect Sunday School attendance.] My hat's off to'im. Cheers, Bookie

Rather than go through all the boiling, etc. I have used artists quality linseed oil from art stores for stocks--witht the reasoning that it dries on canvas within a day or two, so why not on stocks? Works for me--but linseed oil does take more time to do right than other finishes and many custom makers won't use it for the reason that it takes too much time to finish a stock with it. Doesn't bother me on guns I intend to keep....I have used it on numerous stocks. It will darken when used with aqua fortis 'stain' on maple. If not nuetralized you can end up with a near black stock over time--some folks like that look, but it can cover up pretty wood....

Back when I was living in Alaska, I used Linspeed Oil on a stock. It took months to dry. That Southeast Alaska wet weather and that product just didn't jive with this then a teenager's lack of patiance.

I've used that kid stuff (tru-oil) for more than just stocks. I did my shooting box with it, wood furniture, a gun stock, many, many ramrods, and primitive screw driver handles.

Load fast and aim slow.

quote:

Originally posted by White Finger:
Back when I was living in Alaska, I used Linspeed Oil on a stock. It took months to dry. That Southeast Alaska wet weather and that product just didn't jive with this then a teenager's lack of patiance.

I've used that kid stuff (tru-oil) for more than just stocks. I did my shooting box with it, wood furniture, a gun stock, many, many ramrods, and primitive screw driver handles.

Load fast and aim slow.

Linspeed is a fairly fast drying commercial stock finish.
Boiled linseed oil from the home improvement store is paint thinner/log oil. Its not properly made for use on stocks. It will work but takes weeks/months to do a finish.
Boiled linseed oil made for stock finish is not the same as the paint thinner.
Furthermore in heavy coats even properly made linseed oil will not "dry" like tru-oil. It will get kinda rubbery. This is what makes it a good stock finish but I only apply it thick for filling walnut and then take it back to wood as soon as it will no longer stick to the steel wool. This only takes a couple of hours in hot direct sunlight.
Oil to be used in wet climates will set faster if lead acetate is added during the heating process. It will also redden the oil more.
In thin coats it will make a beautiful finish and if some other additives are put it will not turn white when carried all day in the wet.
There are several ways to do this.
I have been mixing Grumbachers Oil Painting Medium III. It makes a soft varnish at 50-50 and makes a very nice finish that dries slow enough to be workable for top coats.

Linseed oil made properly is the fastest stuff I have ever used on walnut and I tried a LOT of stuff over the years and have done well over 100 stocks in walnut on Sharps etc. I would never go back to the fillers, or wet sanding with varnishes etc etc. In summer I can do a filled finish on walnut with 1/2 or less the work and time of other methods I have used and no breathing fumes while wet sanding varnish that has lots of solvents in it.

Dan