Do you put just a little powder in the flash pan or fill it up level? and why? does it have any relation to the size of your touch hole ? ive always heard the less you can get away with the quicker the ignition.I saw someone once make a fuse for a mortar by putting powder on a piece of scotch tape that was then fed through a straw the tape only held a super thin film of powder and man was that thig ever a hair (fuse).

Joe, just use a little. When it ignites, you want the flame to flash through the touchhole to ignite the main charge. You don't want a lot of powder or a "fuse" burning through the touchhole to the main charge. Hope this helps. Best regards. Rockerhound

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Rockerdog,

I find it depends on the firearm. I have a 45 cal rifle with a small siler lock that likes the pan 1/2 to 3/4 full.

I have both a 45 cal rifle and pistol that have what I class as medium sized pans and those will doo fine with what appears to be less powder, though these pans are a bit larger than the small siler.

Then I have a NW trade gun. That think has a regular bucket for a pan. It doesn't have a vent liner, yet the barrel is rather thick at the breech. I tend to fill that pan up, say about 3/4 full.

In my opinion, the important item is that the powder must be below the vent. As far as how much to put in the pan, why be stingy, you want the gun to go bang. You paid how much for the gun and now you want to short change the prime?

May you save a penny in prime while I out shoot your score.

Load fast and aim slow

White Finger im thinking more powder helps insure ignition but less powder produces a faster ignition? is this right is there any sciene behind this?

I'll offer another take on the subject; it applies to my rifles only. They are individuals. I have several small and large Siler locks. They fire without fail using just a small amount of powder. I usually try for 1/4 to 1/3 pan full but sometimes get in less and sometimes more. They will fire with a surprisingly tiny pinch of powder. I'll have to say unless your lock does prefer a large prime, a modest charge is all you need.

Like many things your gun will tell you what is best, the old idea that you should bank the prime against the side of the pan opposite the vent has been pretty well proven false via high speed photography, many find an even pour of prime across the pan works well it is best not to cover the pan so powder does not have to burn an opening to reach the pan, there are few absolutes, practice at the range will not only sharpen your eye but answer a lot of questions about the what and why of flintlocks, I prefer 3f in the bore and as a prime with the large cal. large lock guns, others find this does not do well for them, many are hard core "not bigger than 1/16 vent, I drilled mine to 5/64 and they work very well a feather in the vent keeps any spillage down to the minimum.Vent liners were not common in the past but most folks feel they have to have one now...these guns will work fine with a plain hole between 1/16 and 5/64 coned a bit from the inside,Avoid a patenet breech, just a pain to clean and make fire at times from what I hear from others. I think I have drifted qite a bit off topic so I will stop at that.

As the folks have said it depends. One problem with some of the "scientific" tests done on flintlocks that I have, is the beginning question upon which the tests have been based. The "everybody was taught" or "everybody has heard", or "we all know", type of statement...,well I've been at this black powder thing for 33 years, and flintlocks for 20, and often I hadn't heard any of that. Oh well, when I hit the power ball I can shut up and fund my own research.

I was taught that the touch hole had to be at a point level with the top of the pan for best location. Meaning that if you put powder into the pan, and scraped a knife across the pan to make the powder level, as in a level teaspoon or such when cooking, the touch hole should be just visible at the powder line. If the touch hole was lower, you needed to load the prime a bit away from the hole so as not to block it, or some folks put something between the hole and the pan like a small bit of playing card, closed the frizzen, and removed the card, to keep a quick "fuze" of prime from forming in the hole. I suspect this is where the "bank the prime away from the hole" came from.

I have seen touch hole liners that help you make a gap, and others that by using tougher steel allow the main charge to be a few thousandths of an inch closer to the flash.

The huge problem one has is the flint against the frizzen. You simply cannot, even with good flint and properly hardened frizzen, predict exactly when in the down stroke that heated piece of steel will cut away and fall into the prime. You can't predict where in the pan the sparks will land as sometimes the flint yields less than an even shower of sparks. Then you have to have had a good closure on the frizzen to the pan so no moist air or moisture itself has gotten to the prime.

The only answer that I know for sure..., to be good with a flintlock to have a good chance of getting game or hitting your target is to shoot them a lot! Go the the range on sunny days, overcast days, raining days, hot days, cold days, and even sometimes stay late for low light. You need to find out what your piece likes and doesn't like. Must you swab the bore after every shot? Does your touch hole like to be pricked before being primed? (No jokes please that was too easy ) How much is too little, how much is too much? So you got it figured as what's reliable standing still at the range, so now load her up and shake her a bit like you had been walking in the woods..., does she still shoot the same?

Finally..., when you've got the ignition worked out..., if you're a hunter you need to try odd shooting positions, 'cause pilgrim you can't adjust your stance when that buck or doe is staring at you and expect to get a shot before the deer flags and jets away. Shoot left foot forward, right foot forward, weight on one leg then the other, off hand and supported by a tree or a branch (or simulate such).


LD

R-J, over at Blackpowdermag.com, Larry Pletcher has several articles posted about flint ignition. There's one on amount and placement of powder in the pan for best ignition.

My opinion is that if you've got a lock that's throwing plenty of good, hot sparks, a surprisingly small pinch of powder near the vent will produce a lot of flash & quick ignition. The main charge will feel the most & quickest heat from the priming flash of the powder near the vent. If the lock isn't sparking so as to throw hot sparks near the vent, a spark landing in a heavily filled pan, but outboard from the vent, would still result, but the ignition of the main charge would be a bit slower.

And, to repeat previous comments, having the vent covered or filled with powder creates a fuse effect which is to be avoided.

SCL

I used to be a "bump the powder to the opposite side of the pan from the vent" shooter. Then I co-discovered what LD was talking about...spreading a little across the bottom of the pan to take advantage of where ever the spark came from. But I notice while hunting and carrying a flint rifle around for awhile and opening the hammer (commonly mis-named frizzen) to check the prime I find it is arranged differently from when I set it in the pan. So, dry prime moves around in the pan. Regardless, I haven't had any failure to ignite issues.

And I use a flint plunger that drops 3 grains of powder in the pan. If I am shooting a Brown Bess, I plunge twice.

Sparks

Started out years ago with the idea in vogue: a pinch of powder banked away from the vent hole--then a gunsmith buddy influenced me to do the level panfull thing to catch the earliest spark--then L Pletcher's experiments showed (1) how often sparks just bounce around before ignition and (2) that banking powder close to the hole was faster. So I started that--actually I cannot 'sense' any difference, but I trust the experiments are correct. Do what works for you, but I will say that less powder is better than more powder...

Like the old Brillcream (am I spelling it right?) commercial use to say, "just a little dab will do you". Remember that one, friends? I usually end up with 2-3 grains in the pan; I use a springy thingy.

On my L&R Dickert lock, .45 cal. rifle, "a little" works best. On my large Siler, .54 cal. JP Beck rifle, "a lot" works best. On my NSW Chief's Grade gun with proprietary lock, "medium" seems to work best.
I don't use a springy thingy any more, so it's sometimes a matter of using what falls out of the priming horn and poking the flash-hole every time if I can. (Technically, a "touch hole" is the hole in the top of the cast cannon barrel, which you "touch" with a red-hot metal rod or a matchlock rope. "Flash hole" best describes the function of the hole in the barrel at the pan. Sorry to be picky... )

Dick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRcRIbExrfg

It works OK for patch lube. If you can find it.

Nobody can tell which is faster by ear.
Human senses are way to slow unless there is a real problem and a very slow ignition.
The variation from shot to shot is going to be greater than the average speed difference I would think.
When shooting for fun or at a match I don't worry about prime what ever I put in usually works.
But when hunting I fill the pan mostly full but try not to put in enough to pack. If you are going to have a flash it will be when hunting. Even if it might be a little slower a few thousandths of a second slow is better than a flash in the pan.

Heat is what lights the main charge. Too little heat = flash in the pan.
Larry Pletcher's electronic tests have debunked a lot of flintlock myths.
Dan