Hi everybody. This pilgram is new to the flintlock world of black powder hunting, so help an old fella out, will ya. I'm purchasing a .45 caliber Lancaster or Tennessee longrifle from TVM very soon so I can hunt with it this winter down here in Florida. I would like some advice on shooting loads for targets, deer, and hogs, as well as squirrels and rabbits for this rifle. My past 30+ years experience in hunting primative weapons has only been with caplock firearms, not flintlock. I surmise that most of the powder and patched ball loads might be the same as I used in my old .45 caliber T/C Seneca rifle (I sold the rifle last year). So, please help me out those of you that are hunting with a .45 caliber flintlock longrifle!

If you end up with a .45 longrifle you will like the way it shoots. My hunting load for my .45 is 65 gr fffg and a .440 or .445 ball [the latter is pretty tight in my rifle]. This will drop whitetail deer or smaller game. Tables differ, but that load is about 1900 fps at the muzzle. 50 gr fffg is a good target load in my rifle.

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So, please help me out those of you that are hunting with a .45 caliber flintlock longrifle!

I just chronographed my .42" GM .45cal Flint barrel in 10 grain increments and as I recall it took around 90grns Goex 3F to reach 1900 fps.

IMO, the .45cal is an excellent small game rifle throttled back with 30-40grns Goex 3F, and an excellent deer rifle certainly to 75-80 yards with 90grns Goex 3F...of cours deer have been taken at 100 yds with a .45cal but I think that's starting to get out to the fringe when you consider hitting a large bone at that distance.

I tend to be a little conservative about how much and how far a caliber can and will do something reliably and repeatedly under hunting coditions

The pic below my signature is a TVM .45 Lancaster. I've killed quite a few deer wit it using 80 grains 3f, .015 patch and a home cast .440 ball. In the past year or two I've loaded down a bit to 65(+ or -)grains of 3f more often than not. My farthest deer kill (75 yards) was with that load. Not sure exactly what velocity I'm getting but I suspect it is more than adequate.

Once again, Mike R and roundball, much thanks for replying to my hunting questions. Guys, I know what the .45 caliber will do to deer and small hogs (I don't shoot those big rooters - too tough to kill and not good to eat)! Of course, once I get my .45 caliber flintlock it will have to be sighted in and tested for the best hunting combination of ball & powder. If it is anything like my little T/C Seneca used to be, about 60 graines of FFFG was my hunting load and 30-45 graines of FFFG was used for target and plinking behind a patched 440 ball and patch. I suspect that the 42-inch barrel I will have built on my new flintlock longrifle will send a longer ranged shot out to a target - maybe 100 yards max. Of course, last time out I was using that horrible Pyrodex and Triple Seven substitute stuff since I had no resources for the black powder. Now I have a source (The Jefferson Longrifle Club I recently joined) for the really good Goex FFFG & FFFFG black powder.

Here is a silly hunting tale I tell on myself from last year and one that caused me to reconsider getting back into the "primative" weapons hunting style I left many years ago in my younger days. I was sitting in my camo tent blind during the muzzleloading season last October when a nice 6-point buck walked out on the fireline 36 paces away. My oldest son, Bobby, had talked me into using his bolt action, new fangled, scope sighted, 50 caliber muzzleloader (he actually gave the gun to me when he replaced it with some brand new break-open job). I missed! That made me mad...I never miss that close (with a scope?). So, the wheels started turning and I began hunting with the .54 caliber Hawkins again. But never saw another big critter (well, I didn't shoot the doe like I should have) and there was a turkey that I did not shoot (I did that once three decades ago and blew a hole through the bird large enough to drive a Tiger tank into and out of - Ha)! Okay, now I'm here wanting to buy and hunt with a .45 caliber flintlock because that is the challenge of the primative weapons (I don't do bows and arrows because I can't hit the side of the barn with one). I may get into dressing up the part by this hunting season. We'll see. I guess that is fun, too? Being the Sasquatch sized dude I am it will take someone to make the clothes for me...oh well. Anyhow, roundball, how can I help you with the .45 caliber shooting? I've shot hundreds of caplock roundball down range and into a couple of deer and hogs in the past 10 years is all.

My concern is that the .45 caliber might be a bit too big for taking squirrels and rabbits. Anybody have a clue about that subject? But, roundball, the .45 is down right nasty on the deer and hogs - just do as I do and keep the rooter size down to around 150 pounds and all will be okay. Now, I must tell you that I also hunt with a backup .44 caplock Colt 1860 revolver shoved into a holster as well as a bowie kife and a tomahawk, too. My fat, hikey shorts can't climb trees anymore so I have to pull that "hogleg" out and stand my ground in case of a wounded rooter that charges me (God forbid I ever have to use the knife or tomahawk to portect myself). And, a couple of years ago I had the brainy smerf idea of buying a .44 caliber Colt 3rd Model Dragoon cap & ball revolver as a backup weapon. Geez, the darn thing is so hearvy it pulls your pants down. Y'all don't do that, okay!

Reggie, welcome to the fire, I dont know where people get the idea that a 45 cal is a short range gun. I routinly sight in my deer gun at 100 yards either 45 or 50, the longest deer killed with a m l for me is 165 yds. Yep you guessed it , it was with a 45. they shoot farther than most think. A 45 is a little big for squirrels etc. Check your state laws on legal cal size. Here in Ark 40 and lower are legal for small game, I personaly use a 36. again welcome yours arkansawwind

Hello, arkansawwind! Thanks for the advice on long range .45 caliber game shooting. That is one of the reasons I'm stepping up to a 42-inch barrel on this flintlock TVM will build for me soon! My little Seneca was a 28-incher, too short and a very little gun for serious deer or hog hunting. I found shots over 50-yards flew this and that way, even after numerous hours of trying many differnt loads for it. Now, the .32 caliber barrel shot squirrels just fine, but they were hardly ever shot at over 30-yards anyway! You can bet when I finally get my longrifle I will sight her in for 100-yards, too. BTW, Florida has a law that you must hunt big game with at least a .40 caliber muzzlelaoder, so the .45 will be great. If I ever get around to being "period correct", I should buy a flintlock .45 or .54 caliber pistol for back up. I know you guys have some fearsome rooters down Arkansas way, too, just like we do in Florida and Georgia, where I do most of my hunting. Those nasty piggy-wiggy's will get you if you make them mad enough (like shooting one or getting too close to mama and the little piglets). I know a little bit about getting mama oinker mad at you over some baby hogs, too...don't do it - I lived, she didn't, that time! I was afraid you were going to tell me that the .45 was a bit too big for squirrels. How about I reduce the powder charge to 25-graines, no? Or, is the ball just too large for squirrels? Hey, I can still take head shots or "bark them"!

A .45 with head shots on squirrels should work just fine with your .45. Back when I could see well enough, I routinely head-shot squirrels with a .54 (during deer season). Didn't lose nuthin' but the noggin. Not much of a loss unless you like to eat the brains.

Fiddlesticks

Ain't much worse than a bitin' sow with pigs...

'sticks is right...load her down and take head shots. The 45 is plenty but it'll work.

Vic

Roundball and I have had this discussion about .45 ballistics before. Something is amiss in the velocities--maybe he has a slow barrel or everyone else has bad chronys ....actually alot of parameters affect MV including barrel length, rifling type,ball size, patch and lube combo, type powder...I have compiled chrony data on the .45 from 6 different sources [Lyman BP handbook 1st ed, later ed, three different private net postings and the Stoeger MLers guide]. They did not report 65 gr loads so you have to interpolate between 60 and 70 gr. But that info is what I base my ~1900 fps MV statement on--roundball says he needs 90 gr to reach 1900--here's what the others guys say [I don't have a chrony]:
[all these except (*) are GOEX fffg; the (*) is Swiss; bbl lengths are given as [42] all but (#) are 70 gr loads--(#) is 75; most are .445 balls, but two .440 and one .437 are shown].

.445 [43] 1969fps
.445 [42] 1843
.445 [42] 2021(*)
.445 [40] 2009(#)
.445 [34] 1975
.440 [42] 1991
.437 [32] 1883
For comparison, a 28" T/C Hawken with .440 ball [70 gr] reported 1800fps. all these figures are averages of several runs. The average of the longer barreled [eliminating the T/C] is 1955 fps with loads far short of the 90 gr mentioned by roundball. I don't know why the disparity in data. I think 90gr fffg is an excessive load for a .45 [I think roundball would agree]. Many hunters report excellent results with a 65 -70 gr load for a .45--it is both accurate in most rifles and powerful enough. It shoots pretty flat. The .45 produces with most hunting loads between 300 and 400 ftlbs at 100 yds if I remember the charts [didn't copy that data]--generally closer to 300. To go to 500 ftlbs you need to go to a heavier caliber.

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Originally posted by Mike R:
[I don't have a chrony]:

That of course is a serious handicap when trying to discuss the facts of velocity readings with those who do.

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I think 90gr fffg is an excessive load for a .45 [I think roundball would agree].

No, roundball wouldn't agree / doesn't agree.

IMO, I wonder if various manufacturer's velocity data might be more extrapolation than actual recordings, with the possibility of a self serving motive. As one specific example, T/C's own data charts claim MV in excess of 2000 fps using 90grns 2F out of a 28" barrel.
Closest I've ever gotten to that has been 1900 using Goex 3F out of longer 31 and 42 inch barrels.

My chronograph is a pretty good quality PACT Pro model which I appears to be functioning accurately...firing factory .22cal ammo through it when I got it to establish a benchmark for that very purpose showed it to be accurate.

The readings I got chronographing my PRBs laods are what they are, and I know from good experience killing deer with PRBs what the load does with 90grns Goex 3F...its not excssive, I'm fine with it, and have no compelling reason to change to a low end target load for deer hunting...ie: when I go big game hunting I like to match the load to the game and the hunting conditions / distances I might encounter during the course of a day. In fact I hope to christen my new .45cal Dickert this fall using my normal deer hunting load:

90grns Goex 3F
Oxyoke wad
.018" pillow ticking
Hornady .440" ball

In summary, it seems the only constant to any of this is your dogged interest in wanting to make an issue out of the fact that I happen to use 90grns instead of your personal choice of 65 grns. By contrast, I have never and will never try to convince you (or anyone) that you should use what I use...what you decide to use is simply your choice and is of absolutley no consequence to me what-so-ever.

And to simplify your next effort in dredging this issue up again, my answer will be the same.

Holy Smokes, roundball and Mike R, y'all are a passionate bunch! But, thanks for the detailed analysis in powder charges and bullet ballistics. As well, thanks Fiddlesticks and Sharps4070. Yikes, I've made a list of all 'y'all as it is getting hard for my old peabrain to remember y'alls names without references! God bless you one and all for helping a fella out here.

Now, I'm really glad to hear a .45 caliber longrifle will work for the squirrels - just use head shots (no problem). In the last 10 years my eyesight has really scrolled down the page (sort of speak) and I think that is why my son wanted me to use that in-line, scope sighted .50 caliber muzzleloader last year. Well, I thanked him, and I love his concern for my Magooisms, but I must stay primative, you see (no pun intended). And, as such, the sights going on my potential flintlock is of grave concern for me right now.

So, this is the subject today "as I ponder weak and weary" (oh dear, sorry for the Poe quote there). What, what shall I decide to do for sights on the old girl? As I researched this last night in several catalogs, there are not a lot of really great choices for "period correct" longrifles. Darn it, I could say to heck with the period and go with a modern sighting arraingement. But, should I? The other issue I thought about last night was the range factor. If I go with time period sighting, I should hold the range down to 50-yards as seeing those primative sights with my phewy eyesight is asking a lot for an old fella! Darn, just when you think most everything is settled for making a rifle, another subject rises up and bites you in the rear. Make note of the fact that old Reggie here has not even gotten into the accessories one needs as yet. Gads, that is going to take up another day and a half of researching things for flintlock necessities! We'll worry about that stuff when I definately settle on building this rifle, okay?

Okay gents, have a go at this one, will ya?

roundball, I am sorry you are taking my post this way. There is no "issue" or agenda on my part. I am just reporting the results of other chrony tests--as I said, I do not know why they disagree with yours--they generally agree with each other even though they were independent tests--and NOT by manufacturers. Because I have several reports to your one, I give weight to them--by the way you did not report what your 65=70 gr MVs were [or I missed them]--I'll be glad to incorporate that data into my files. The fact that I do not own a chronograph has no bearing on the facts presented--I see no handicap in it in discussing results of other's tests. Of course I cannot test my own rifle set-up without one. I passed this info along for general information purposes for anyone interested in .45 loads for hunting. I stand by my statement that 90 gr fffg is excessive for a .440 ball. It is stout for a .490. It is more than I use for my .530s. But each to his own--I am NOT trying to talk you or anyone else out of whatever loads they want to use. I have been shooting MLers for over 35 years [actually 48 yrs since I shot the first MLer]. But I guess experience does not count. My mentors would say you are wasting powder with 90 grs for a .440 ball--but if you like it, it is OK with me. I present an alternative view for others to think about.

No disrespect to you, roundball, but I'm going with Mike R's ideas on using 90 graines for me and the .45 caliber right now. I use 90 graines of FFG in my .54 caliber Hawkin now as the normal hunting load, with 100 graines of powder as the best full power delivery while still keeping accuracy intact (I tried 120 graines and it kicked the snot out of me and lost accuracy something terrible)! My experience with the old Seneca in .45 caliber was to use 45 graines to target and plink and 60-65 graines for hunting. I tried a 90 grain blast one time and didn't like it (in fact, I think it cost me the phewy stock on the T/C caplock). But, that was me. I say, use what works for you and is okay for the rifle. Obviously, when I get my flintlock, it will be put through the paces of ball, patch, and granular loadings to find the most accurate load as well as the best hunting load! Thanks again, gents.

I talked to a fella a couple of days ago whose mouth dropped open when I told him the 150 grain powder charge he'd been using in his .45 wasn't entirely necessary. He let on like he'd never heard such a tale. Anyway, I think he took the hint to let up a little. Not sure why he hasn't taken nipple-shrapnel atwixt his eyes, already.

Reggie, one thing to figure into your load-finding-struggles might be the range you generally shoot at deer down yonder amongst those piney thickets, pointy-tined plants and such. There's lots of places on this earth you can't even see a deer past fifty yards. Hence, Mike's load. If you plan on squinting through your blurry sights across a prairie setting, you might edge it on up Roundball's way.

Fiddlesticks

FWIW, I do have a chronograph and have used it extensively with modern arms but not as much with muzzies??? I did chronograph my .45x36" Lancaster using 80 grains of 3f. The velocity was around 2035fps. I killed lots of deer with that combo and it would really shoot. Though I need to chronograph some 60 to 70 grain loads, I think a bit less powder will still give good velocity. Just need to check first.

Reggie, I just don't know about going out on a limb with the sights. Do what you must but I like primitive sights and will use them until I simply can't. My average deer kill is around 30 yards and yours is probably about that too. I can still see well enough to shoot up to about 75 yards with them.

Reg...I don't know how old you are but unfortunately I too am familiar with the eyesight dilemma. Also as with you I prefer the open sights. A few years ago when my eyes started going I set out to find a way to continue to use open sights. What I found was nothing new...eyes have been going south since God gave them to us...but it works for me.

One thing that helped me a lot was simply to widen the notch in the rear sight and use as thin a front sight as is practical. Made a huge difference. The other thing, and this is at its best in good light, is to use either a real diopter, (Lyman and Merrit make them), or just take a piece of black electrical tape, punch a hole in it of about 1/8 in. diameter, and stick it on your corrective lenses in the right place. You don't need that entire 1/2 inch of tape on your lenses. Just trim it down to a kind of circle about 1/4-3/8 in. diameter. That right place is found by trial and error but once found you can stick it on your glasses in the "right place" every time. I've forgotten the exact definition of why and how it works but work it does. Of course that is only applicable if you wear corrective lenses.

At any rate, it's kept me shooting my rifles accurately for longer than I expected I would be able. Longer ranges have shortened some but off a rest, within about 35 yards, a squirrels head is still in dire straits.

Good luck with all your choices and enjoy!!

Vic

I use 70grs. Goex, pillow ticking patch , hand cast .440 prb. Seems accurate and doesn't hurt my shoulder. Also I'd check with Toni but I don't think they reccomend more than 75grs. in yheir .45s

same arguments as have been argued about the .40....shoot the dang gun, see what "it" likes at the range, then do a LOT of woods shooting with it...charts,chrono's etc are all useful tools, but NOTHING beats just shooting the gun!!

Hi folks! I can see that a lot of y'all are hunters and have practiced much with various ball & powder loads. Like my old caplocks, shoot straight and shoot more often is the word. Each and every gun, be it shotgun, rifle, pistol, or revolver has a favorite load and it is up to me to find the answer to that riddle. When I find it, bang-bang, time to hunt! It will take TVM until at least Christmas to finish my rifle of choice so I will not have a lot of time to practice before hunting the swamps down here. I think I'll start out with 45 graines of FFFG Goex for target, sight in, and then start moving up in 5 grain increments until I get to maybe 90 graines. My guess is somewhere along 60 to 75 graines will do the trick but time will tell.

I do mostly hog and deer hunting as well as squirrel & rabbit, so the .45 caliber fits nicely into my choices. Oh, oh, called to dinner. I don't miss too many meals so I'll get back in here later.