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Blacksmiths leg vise - dates?
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Booshway
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Lads - I am researching the topic of 18th century frontier blacksmithing and came upon a question to toss out. Does anyone have info on the date when the blacksmith's leg vise appears?
I see them in paintings post 1800, but what about the 18th Century? Most of the "historic" shops I have seen (in person and in illustrations) do have them, but I am wondering of those are "period correct" for 1775 or so.

Anybody got any clues, references, or info on this?

Col Boone
 
Posts: 728 | Location: Volcano, Hawaii | Registered: 22 September 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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They go back to at least the 1500's I think. Here is a woodcut from 1500 or so showing a Flemish Blacksmith with a leg vise in the back on the right. Then there are a couple of illustrations from Diderot's "L' Encyclopedie" and the leg vise is attached to the bench on the left, and in another the leg vise is again on the left, behind the craftsman on the left.

Big Grin

LD


It's not what you know, it's what you can prove
 
Posts: 3843 | Location: People's Republic of Maryland | Registered: 10 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Loyal Dave - Great, I will check those out! I also dug out my copy (facsimile) of Joseph Moxon's "Mechanix Exercises", published in London in 1703. I the section on "smithing" he has a very clear illustration of the basic tools and equipment in a blacksmith shop of that time. The leg vise shown there is so darn close to the one in my shop (estimated at 1890's) that it is really amazing. Your suggestions take this date back at least 200 years prior to that.

Seems to me that until the arrival of water powered trip hammers, a blacksmith shop did not really change much for about 250 years...and, for much of the small work related to reenacting does not need to have more advanced equipment than they did in 1775.

Thanks for the refs on that, much appreciated.

Col Boone
 
Posts: 728 | Location: Volcano, Hawaii | Registered: 22 September 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of Josh Crain
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Boone, I've seen pictures of medieval armour smiths with leg vices. Like Dave said, 1500's or so. Perhaps even earlier. You could try Googling armour smith photos and see what you come up with.


"Return unto me, and I will return unto you," saith the Lord of hosts.
~Malachi 3:7b
 
Posts: 297 | Location: MI | Registered: 18 August 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Is a leg vise the same thing as a 'post' vise?
 
Posts: 1487 | Location: Mountain Home, Arkansas | Registered: 08 October 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Rifleman - Yep, sure is. We see both terms applied to the same device in many texts and citations. Essentially, it is a bench mounted
vise with a "leg" that extends to, and is secured in the floor - adding great stability. The other aspect that I noted as soon as I got mine is that the pitch of the screw thread is very coarse in comparison to that of a modern "machinists vise"..thus, you can open and close it very quickly in comparison, which is beneficial when needing to hold a heat, get the workpiece in the vise and work on it before the heat is lost.

Col Boone
 
Posts: 728 | Location: Volcano, Hawaii | Registered: 22 September 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Josh - Checked on the armorer's vise and did come up with some leads, but the best to tie it firmly to the colonial frontier period is the illustration in Moxon's "Mechanick Exercises", which shows a vise so much like those we can obtain today that it is amazing. That book was first published in 1695 (London), and the last printing was in 1703, which is the one I have as a facsimile. That book, by the way, is a total treasure for anyone interested in early methods of craft.

Col Boone
 
Posts: 728 | Location: Volcano, Hawaii | Registered: 22 September 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of Josh Crain
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Souns good, Boone. Mabey I'll check that book out sometime.


"Return unto me, and I will return unto you," saith the Lord of hosts.
~Malachi 3:7b
 
Posts: 297 | Location: MI | Registered: 18 August 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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quote:
Originally posted by Col. Boone:
Rifleman - Yep, sure is. We see both terms applied to the same device in many texts and citations. Essentially, it is a bench mounted
vise with a "leg" that extends to, and is secured in the floor - adding great stability. The other aspect that I noted as soon as I got mine is that the pitch of the screw thread is very coarse in comparison to that of a modern "machinists vise"..thus, you can open and close it very quickly in comparison, which is beneficial when needing to hold a heat, get the workpiece in the vise and work on it before the heat is lost.

Col Boone


Thanks. I have a 'post' vise mounted just outside my shop door. Very useful and used often. Some tasks I couldn't do without it.
 
Posts: 1487 | Location: Mountain Home, Arkansas | Registered: 08 October 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Rifleman1776 - Agree - I never had one until I got this when setting up my blacksmith shop and I sure appreciate the value. The thing that gets me is that mine is said to have been made in 1890 and it works just as well as it did when new...just find me a tool at Home Depot that will perform like that! No way....

Col Boone
 
Posts: 728 | Location: Volcano, Hawaii | Registered: 22 September 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of Josh Crain
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Lol! You bet! Big Grin I got mine when I was just starting smithwork two years ago, and had to straighten the post, and the arms of the vise, and I also hand to make a new spring and mounting device, but It sure works good now! I don't know what I'd do without it!


"Return unto me, and I will return unto you," saith the Lord of hosts.
~Malachi 3:7b
 
Posts: 297 | Location: MI | Registered: 18 August 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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I've got a post vise I bought some years ago. They are one of those things that due to the heavy pieces and lack of parts they should outlast us all. I don't know if they are still around or not but Centaur Forge used to have a catalog you could still purchase the vise and the above swage block.


I never have been much for drinking the kool-aid.It's not in my nature.
 
Posts: 336 | Location: Central Pennsyltucky | Registered: 12 January 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Graybeard
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Leg and post vises cam also be made out of wood for wood or leather working.
 
Posts: 210 | Location: Fingerlakes | Registered: 02 August 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
Picture of Ohio Rusty
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There is some archeological documentation of the post vice being used at both Fort Michilimacinac and Ft. St. Joseph in the 18th century. One bit of documentation said the french used 4 canoes to move the blacksmith shop, and some of the inventory was the anvil and post vice along with other blacksmith supplies mentioned.

Great documantation paintings Loyalist Dave !! Thanks for those. I often try to use early paintings or woodcuts to see what was used way back when. Here is a print of a blacksmith using the vice. This one may be 19th century in time/era http://www.artoftheprint.com/a...miedeinschwangau.htm
Ohio Rusty ><>
Purveyor and Blacksmith
The Ohio Frontier Forge

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ohio Rusty,
 
Posts: 19 | Location: Falls of the Hockhocking, Ohio | Registered: 28 May 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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I happened to come across a site (linky shown below) that has a bunch of period paintings and a few of them have vices shown in the pics. Really nice illustrations to look at with lots of blacksmith images (tools, anvils, etc).
Ohio Rusty
Purveyor and Blacksmith
The Ohio Frontier Forge
http://gulfcoastblacksmith.com...ntings-and-sketches/

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ohio Rusty,
 
Posts: 19 | Location: Falls of the Hockhocking, Ohio | Registered: 28 May 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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