I searched to see if this topic had been raked over the coals before and found nothing. So, who can tell us about the Hudson Bay Camp Knife? Or, where can a guy find information about them? I'm suddenly very interested in getting one. Shoot sharp's the word, Mike

Good morning Mike.

Dixie gun works has one for about 60 bucks. I don't know if it looks as it should. For $60.00 it does not speak to me.

P

This message has been edited. Last edited by: poordevil,

The knife is mentioned in Russell's book 'Firearms, Tools and Traps of the mountain man'. Also this online article: http://www.fholder.com/Blacksmithing/article2.htm

I recall an article probably in BackWoodsman Mag a few years back on HB Camp knives, but don't remember what issue - maybe a perusal of their back issues index would turn something up.

Idaho Knife Works comes to mind as a probable source for the things.

SCL

Poordevil, That one in the Dixie catalog is a fine little knife but it is a "mini" of the original. It is made by a fine maker though and well worth the $60, in my most humble opinion.

SC, Thanks for the heads-up on the words in Firearms, Traps & Tools. I had looked in that book but in the wrong part of the chapter, so I missed it. And, after reading the info in that copy, I'm even more interested. And thanks as well for the lead on the Blacksmith's Gazette story. Fred Holder is an old friend and Red Sverdrup is too. I'll follow those leads further. I'm guessing that the story about the Hudson Bay Camp Knife in Backwoodsman was written by Dean Hazuka and he's the maker I'm thinking about getting one of the knives from.

That's okay, I'll still look for more info. Thanks again. Shoot sharp's the word, Mike

Mike,

Those knives are covered in the 'Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook'. They are a heck of a cleaver, probably about 1/4"+ thick for most of the spine. Most of them were made by Jukes and Coulson or Jukes, Coulsen, Stokes for HBC. I don't have real good dates on when they started making them, but suspect late 1850's. I've found documentation on Jukes and Coulsen going back to 1857 and they added Stokes as a partner in 1866. These companies also made a lot of late scalpers for HBC in the 1860's. The Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook states that the big camp knives were an HBC item until the 1890's.

As for who makes them, I know Dennis Miles has turns out one now and again. I recall that Ron LeClair (NTWF Longhunter on here) had one of his that he posted on here sometime back. Maybe he'll see this and repost pictures of his.

As a related aside, the Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook also has a sketch of a relic knife that is along similar lines but was thought to be a big cleaver from New Mexican Cibolero (buffalo hunter) camp on the southern plains. It was a big chunk of a knife that was made out of wrought iron with a forge-welded steel bit for the edge. Charlie Hanson thought it was the sort of thing for "butchering en masse". I've thought about making one of those out of some heavy stock I have on hand. I've got some old broken disk blades that would be just the ticket for it.

Sean

Museum of th Fur Trade's "Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook" has info on them along with an exact pattern of one version - [url=http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/ff-blades/hudson-bay-buffalo-1.jpg[/url]

Dennis Miles of Double Edge Forge has researched them and has some info dating them to the late 1820's/early 1830's, although they became more popular in the 1840-50's - he also makes a nice copy of an original. Although called a camp knife they are generally considered to have been developed for the buffalo robe trade which fits the time period.
Here's one by Dennis


Mike Mann of Idaho Knife works also makes a nice copy:


and last but not least one by Dean Hazuka -

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Chuck,

You link doesn't work, but hella nice sheaths for those buff-choppers. I'd be interested to hear what Dennis has for those knives pre-1850. Hope he sees this discussion.

Sean

heres an ad for an original. they are very nice knives.

http://historicaltrekking.com/...viewtopic.php?t=5565

Just to let you hombres know where this has led to, I've told Dean Hazuka that I want one. Shoot sharp's the word, Mike

Anyone looking for a modern rendition of this knife could look at BARK RIVER. At a little over $200.00 they are not cheap but Bark River does make the best knife in North America right now. I have a couple of their knives and am thinking of a Hudson Bay to add to the collection. By collection I mean useable not sit on a book case type of thing

PJC

Hey Mike,
Crazy Crow has one called the Canadian skinner that looks alot like the HB,Second or third page of the knives

Mike, I like em Hudson Bay knives... here's my HB knife made by Mike Mann, Idaho knife works.




Here's my knife by Dennis Miles, sheath by Chuck Burrows.



And finally, my Hazuka knife, sheath by Chuck Burrows

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Ron, Thanks for showing us those pictures. I just might find the Hudson Bay Camp knives habit forming myself... Shoot sharp's the word, Mike

Be careful it can be habit forming, and Chuck makes some dandy pants for them blades ..

quote:

and Chuck makes some dandy pants for them blades

Yes, that I can see! Shoot sharp, Mike

them things wuz also called "chief's knife" fer a reason; they wuz sumtimes used as a presentation piece er bribe. preston miller, over at four winds, showed me a matching pair uv silver-inlayed bone-handled dag and camp knife, in good shape, thet must've set th' recipient back many plews, ponies & daughters, with a few scalps frum rival companies throwed in.
i got two uv 'em; one pakistani repro thet makes a good paperweight; handle's too thick t' hold it, and a 'riginal jukes coulson uv th' earliest style spoke uv in "firearms, traps and tools", which i cain't bear t' sharpen. either one'd drag my britches down ef i wore it on my belt. th' mexicans had a rival piece called a machetito that done th' same kinda chores--breakin' down big carcasses, splittin' f'arwood, etc., that c'n be found 'round th' southwest to this day--not much fer stabbin', but not bad fer loppin' off body parts!

mind yer topknots! windy

Windy, I'd like to see that original, maybe when our trails cross sometime. That is, if you ain't gettin' too old and feeble to pack it along. Shoot sharp, Mike

Indians called the knife with the big brass washers, "knife with eyes"...or so the story goes

HI Mike,

Ebay has listed some originals. You might check them out for reference. They are "spendy"

"Aim small, miss small"

quote:

You might check them out for reference.

Sage Rider, I'll look! Shoot sharp, Mike