Does anyone know if there is anywhere in the lower 48 where it is legal to "live off the land" for a summer or so. I have been to rendezvous as a Coureurs de Bois, and would like to actually experience the true meaning of "runner of the woods." I have modern backpacked in Alaska before but even there, many laws govern the uses of resources... I am in my twentys and would like to be able to complete this adventure while I still can.

Well Little Otter, I s'pose they'd have to catch you first, just watch yer back trail and mind yer top knot

Son
Living off the land today is called "poaching".
IF, you could find a huge land owner to allow
you to portray a free but for the laws of nature
existance on his land, then I don't see how you
can pull it off. There are just too many rules
on the use of public lands to allow it.
Many have tried it and when things got desperate
ran afoul of the law. Maybe let's say you got
on the John Wayne trail and walked from Canada
to Mexico continiuosly moving, you might be able
to achieve 50% of what your seeking.
Good luck.

Even the guy who built his own cabin and stayed for more than a couple of decades (PBS shows his documentary from time to time to show they aren't anti-hunting) had supplies flown in a couple of times each year, and he was in the middle of nowhere in Alaska.

The last folks that "lived off the land" in the truest sense were natives before contact. Boone, Kenton, the long hunters, the woods runners, all had to be resupplied with flints, powder, knives, 'hawks, axes, blankets, and lead. They had to find a salt spring, or like Dodderidge had to go east to get salt. Mountain men went to a rondezvous to sell fur and to resupply, and ONLY did with less eastern comforts because they had to, not because they chose to.

The only other way I'd suggest..., see if you can't get a university anthropology department to let you do it as a two year research project. You are NOT the researcher..., you are the test-subject. The university would arrange for you to use a BIG chunk of land, and would have to get you a "crop damage" permit (or some other authorization from the local DNR), plus get the DNR to allow "other than legal" methods for gathering fish like a fish pen or trap. You would then live-off-the-land, keeping a detailed journal (hey they did that back then too), and let the professors and doctors study the results. Get a medical school as well "in" on the research, and you might just pull it off.

They could see just what was "needed". They could check the amount of work necessary to establish both grown foods (you're going to have to have a garden as well as an acre or two of flint corn), and what you find growing wild.

They could measure the health effect on you. How much % of body fat in relationship to the time of the year. How much actual food, calories, the percieved level of "hunger" you experienced, the cholesterol levels, the sodium levels in the diet and in you. They could measure your overall strength before you start, and then see how much you gain as you apply the physical labor, etc etc. Some grad student could get a PhD, a Medical Doctor (especially a cardiologist) could get wonderful info for a paper for the medical journals. When done you could write a book about the experience. (I think one of the most interesting things would be, if they didn't give you much info on current events, and you noted how much you found had changed in 24 months when you "return" to our century.) Bon Chaunc

LD

Some years ago I read the book, "We Like It Wild" by Branford Aniger. It was a story of a man and his wife who moved to the wilds of Canada along the Peace river and lived off the land. They took what they needed from nature in the form of plants and fish without breaking any game laws. In the fall they killed moose and Bear for their meat and preserved it so it kept without spoiling. A good read.

Another good book to read is "The Last of the Mountain Men" by Harold Peterson: Scribners (1969) (ISBN 0-684-13961-8). It tells the story of Sylvan Hart, or "Buckskin Bill", who lived a self-sufficient lifestyle on the Salmon River in Idaho. My parents saw his compound while they were on a raft trip down the Salmon in 1975. He raised a garden of vegetables, hunted elk, deer, and bear, and did his own blacksmithing, gunsmithing, and carpentry. He made beautiful blackpowder rifles and pistols.

The book can be found on Amazon. There appears to be a newer edition. This book will whet your appetite to try living off the land, as well as give some practical suggestions as to how to do it. Most of all, it is a well-written story about a remarkable man, and it contains a lot of history of the Salmon River wilderness in Idaho.

Little Otter all I can say is ya better REALLY be prepared to suffer, IF! ya get to do this. Going out for a week or two is one thing but to actually try to live off the land is a whole nother animal.Maybe instead of going out for an extended period of time ya might think about trying it for two weeks at a time in different seasons. At least this way you will find out just what ya don't know and be able to do some research for the next time.Fall is a pretty easy time of year to find food but the natives had names for other times, like the "starving moon" moon when the trees cry etc. Finding food in winter or spring is no cake walk, yer body is screaming for fats(carbs n there is very very little to find. Most game in late winter n early spring is almost so lean you can more or less starve to death with a full belly. Also finding good pure water in sufficient quantity to stay alive can be difficult. When I was a kid like you I often thought of doing the same thing, its a beautiful dream. I did the several week to a bit better then a month times and it was mega tuff in three out of the four seasons. Cold as well as heat can cripple ya quick, before ya even realize it. Ya need to have someone who knows where ya are at all times and can check up on ya if you don't make yer normal check ins to tell em yer ok. Dead is dead, there ain't no hitting "do over" or "replay" when it comes to mother nature, when she hurts ya, she hurts ya bad n often permanently. I hope ya get to do it and have a ball learning all ya can, just really think about it n plan well. Keep us informed! Many of us old farts will definately be with ya in spirit YMHS Birdman

Hey! Little Otter, keep us posted on your progress in this endevor. i always wanted to do something like this myself but it's to late for me,too old and fat now. i would be interested to see how you work it out...good luck!

quote:

Another good book to read is "The Last of the Mountain Men" by Harold Peterson: Scribners (1969) (ISBN 0-684-13961-8). It tells the story of Sylvan Hart, or "Buckskin Bill", who lived a self-sufficient lifestyle on the Salmon River in Idaho. My parents saw his compound while they were on a raft trip down the Salmon in 1975. He raised a garden of vegetables, hunted elk, deer, and bear, and did his own blacksmithing, gunsmithing, and carpentry. He made beautiful blackpowder rifles and pistols.

I read that book years ago. I think it's still around someplace.

Little Otter,

That was a dream of mine, too. I got inspired reading, "My Side of the Mountain' which was later made into a Disney movie.

Keep in mind that no matter how isolated in a state you are...the state still considers the game theirs. Hence the game rules apply but there is frequently stuff open year round or not protected.

I've also seen Sylvan Hart's place on the Salmon (late 80s and again in 2002 or so). If I remember right, there is stuff for sale there, which brings in more than nuts and berries so he can purchase the powder and ball. He has 'gone over' years ago, but the place still operates.

One of the things people have a hard time getting in the wilds is carbs...not just those in fruit, but grain/potato type carbs that Americans are used to.

Good luck. I also suggest short 'conditioning' trips as well. You might spend some time in the Lewis and Clark days to see how they fared. But keep in mind they were trying to feed 50 or 60 people...not just one.

Sparks

All great info, thanks guys.

I am really not looking to poach or anything illegal. I am more looking to be able to set up a camp near a stream and see how long I could make it...

Most of this is inspired by an article, that I am sure many have read, in Outside mag. It was writen in 93 about the "travels" of Chris McCandless. In doing my own research on this "great adventure" I have found that it was a failed attempt as soon as he stepped onto the trail. In April of 92 he went into the snowy bush with only 15 lbs of rice, a .22, camera and minor camping gear. I have read that article a million times. I read the book a few, and saw the movie. After thinking about McCandless flaws, I know I can do better. He made it 112 days. The key would be, never be too proud to go home...


LD, I watch that special as much as possible, whenever I catch it on that is.

Little Otter

Sparks, I loved that book, along with its partner "On the Far Side of the Mountain" writen much later around 90 I believe.

Why not try it in the fall when hunting season starts? Then you could legally take game and fish. It wouldn't help ya much w/crops though. RD

Little Otter,

I think that you should be able to spend a couple of months trying to live off the land in any of our national forests. Summer might not be the best time to try it becasue you would not be legally able to take any game animals. However, there are year round seasons on certain varmit type animals depending on each individual states game laws.

In the absense of game animals you would need to rely on fish, crayfish, snakes and such as well as wild edible plants and varmit type animals if you find any.

I have a friend who spent nearly a month in the woods in Alaska while totally primitive. He went in with just a small bag of parched corn and a small bag of jerky. This was a 6 or 7 years ago and I don't remember what time of year it was, but he ate a lot of salmon, a few pine squirrels and a lot of wild edible plants. In fact when I think about it I know several guys who went on extended trips in the wilderness with primitive gear and a little jerky and parched corn.

All the guys I know who have done this are members of the American Mountain Man Association.

If you are secure in your knowledge of primitive skills and wild edibles then go for it. It will be the experience of a lifetime.

Randy Hedden

I was up in Sitka Alaska last summer, and I read an article about how it is almost impossible to starve on a beach in Southeast Alaska. In fact, the folks who just hung around the beach were known as being lazy, because they didn't have to work to find food or make a living. I suppose you couldn't be too squeamish about what you eat.

good luck with that little otter. you could live off crows. they are in in the summer. though i wouldnt suggest it. plus they are some hard buggers to kill.

yodlers too.

Little Otter
Want to get lost in the wild?
Northern Michigan between Lake Michigan and
Lake Superior west of HWY 75. It is so wild
Michigan allows homesteading for settelers.
Another, north-east Minnesota. Go to Ely on hiway 18 and on to roads end. There are a bozillion acres of woods, lots of water and game. It is a park but I doubt you see many folks.
If you want to be by yourself try those.

Do look at homesteading. Or you might try foreign climes. Russian Siberia? Brazil? Southern Chile or Argentina? The language barrier just might resemble what was faced in dealing with Native Americans in the ol' days. Seriously--it just might work.

Sure got yerself a ponderable there, yes, indeed!

I ain't never went out "living on the land" for more than a week at a time, and I've only done that twice. Both times were during what I felt were the easier times to survive. I never missed supper during those two seperate weeks. Again, July in MO has a lot of food sources available, so aside from the heat, humidity, and mosquitoes it wasn't too rough on me.

If you research the abundant plant food sources and are willing to eat any animal that flys, smims, walks or crawls you shouldn't have too much of a problem with starvation. But; exposure, injury, or illness, will be constantly waiting to kill you...even if you are well trained and prepaired.

I figure that if you know that your putting your own life at risk, and are willing to fully accept those risks, then there's no reason not to go for it. I'd hate to live my life with a burning desire to try something, but keep myself from it because it was risky.

Good luck Sir, and I can't wait to read about it.