I had a blast today - this is what I practiced - I loaded the gun and ran (a good clip but not a sprint) about 200 yds. I stopped and fired (within 5 seconds) at a forked tree - aiming for the middle of the V at about 25 yds - which I hit. I continued this for 20 shots over a distance of about 4 miles - targets ranging from gourds (about the size of a large apple or small grapefruit) floating in the water at 25 yds to a 12" wide limestone rock about 75 yds - and several other things in between. The end result was I missed two targets over the course of the run/shoot - that rock at 75 yds was one of them - as well as an 8" wide stump at 60 yds - but everything else was a hit - which I was pretty happy with - considering I am a fat, 43 yoa man, shooting a smoothbore without a rear sight. What I loved about it was that I was able to make exercise alot more fun - and although I only wore my tricorn, pouch/horn, belt and knife/hawk - with my sweat pants and running shoes - I felt great

Hey, that sounds great. Did you learn anything about the way you hang your pouch and horn? High or low? Floppy or tight?

Dick

Dick - I have always hung it pretty high up on my ribs - doesn't flop much anyway and if I just tuck my off hand over the top - it stays put. I wear it to high to hold down by putting my weapons belt over the top of the straps - and any higher and it would be a bit more difficult to load - but I may try to do that anyway - as an experiment to see what happens.

What you created was a Seneca run. FYI you might omit the targets actually on the water, and watch them against hard rocks. It's rare but if the angle is right round ball will skip off water at odd angles, and ricochets from rocks with soft lead are very possible. I've seen lead projectiles come straight back and "tag" the shooter in the past. Don't forget to stop and chuck your hawk at a wood target at least once. For a change of pace you could get a few clay birds and prop them up for a round or two of shot. Sounds like fun!

LD

KHickam -
As you know, gun safety is of primary concern to all at the Campfire. You didn't specify in the description of your run, but perhaps you can clarify for the greenhorns who might read this post: when you say you "loaded the gun and ran", I'm assuming that the gun was not primed (or capped). Running with a primed weapon in hand can be hazardous to your health!

No, primed with a frizzen stall in place. Lots of things are hazardous to your health, driving a car. When you hunt do you not have a primed or capped gun? Exercising the appropriate muzzle control - I would think a primed and loaded flintlock, on half cock would be no less safe than carrying a loaded modern rifle with a cartridge in the chamber and on safe.

quote:

Originally posted by KHickam:
No, primed with a frizzen stall in place. Lots of things are hazardous to your health, driving a car. When you hunt do you not have a primed or capped gun? Exercising the appropriate muzzle control - I would think a primed and loaded flintlock, on half cock would be no less safe than carrying a loaded modern rifle with a cartridge in the chamber and on safe.

Well, several things come to mind: Not many hunters run through the woods with loaded muzzleloaders or chambered cartridge guns, a frizzen stall ain't much of a safety device - being prone to catching on a branch or jostling off the frizzen while on the run, and flinters have been known to go off 'half cocked' or fire without powder in the pan. Whether what you're doing is actually a significant safety hazard depends on whether there are other people within range should an accidental discharge occur. Strikes me a safer approach, if you're determined to run with a load down the barrel, would be to run with the frizzen open, and the pan unprimed. Shouldn't take much longer to splash powder in the pan and snap the frizzen shut at the firing point than it would to pull a stall off.

Loyalist Dave is right - what you're doing is, in essence, a Seneca Run. If you enjoy what you're doing, you'd probably really enjoy competing in a Seneca Run match. And, NMLRA rules for Seneca runs say loading is done only at the firing points, not on the run. Modify your routine accordingly, and you'd be learning skills to use in a real match.

SCL

KHickam!! I'am with you on the point "Lots of things are hazardous to your health"Worst one I ever heard of is growing old,lots of people die from it.However there are ways to slow the process,not running with a loaded rifle of any Period is one that comes to mind.Some differance in CARRYING and RUNNING with a loaded rifle modern or P/C.
But that said your discription on the events sounds much like the Sniper Shoot at Quantico.Most folks can stand flat footed and shoot well,however throw in the pounding chest and gasping for air,throw in an ounce of shakes now shoot off handed, sure seperate them from those.I read to indicate you were along,good and bad,good you cant accidently shoot anyone else,bad if you shoot yourself.Hate to read you went beaver doing something you enjoyed.
Enjoy what you do,live life like you are going to die tonight and hope you wake in the morning surprised.Kiss'em,hug'em,pat'em everytime you get the chance!!!!

Khickam,
What ever you decide, keep running (or getting aerobic exercise of some sort). Heart attacks and other coronary diseases surely kill. And you don't need to prime their pan with anything but leisure time with no exercise.
Sparks

ALL GUNS are mechanical devices and can have an accidental discharge - since no one was around but me - no one else was endangered.

The place I shoot is an old drag line gravel pit - should a ball ricochet off the water it will be contained by the 10 to 12 ft high sand banks on either side - The rock is way out over the water on the side of the bank about half way down towards the water so there is alot of dirt to contain that ricochet should one occur - I see lots of shots at gongs seems to me one is just as likely to have a spent ball come back at you from one of those (hard flat surface) as one would from a 12" rock at 75 yds.

I shoot at a range - and I hear alot more whizzing bullets coming from the centerfire people than I do from muzzleloaders.

Guys you are right - walking while hunting is less hazardous than running, which I very seldom do - but can remember a few times that I had to move fast/run to get in front of and above an animal that I would have otherwise been out of position to shoot.

Have any of you been chukar hunting? Just curious - I have tripped, fallen, and had all kinds of other things happen up on those mountains just walking up the hills - ice, snow, slick grass are normal not the extremes up there - my guns (which were loaded by the way) have the scars to prove it. And if I lived in the Pacific NW -I would still be doing that too.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KHickam,

I never tell a man how to drink his coffee or how to load his gun...

This might be a little safer and still do what you want to accomplish. I would suggest, fire your gun at the target, run to the next target, reload and shoot. Repeat.

I have competed in 'runs'. The rules stated do not load until reaching the next station. Greatest danger (and it was significant) was slipping, tripping and falling while running on mud with soft soled moccasins. Running with an unsheathed tomahawk in the belt also presented a real danger. I don't belive there would be much chance of a shooting accident under those conditions. However, yer rifle is at great risk from dropping or a fall. The good news is that I'm old enough now to have an excuse to beg out of such competitions. Thank you, I'll walk.

Was at a rondy where they had a woods walk. You went from station to station at whatever pace you felt was best(long as it took only five minutes or less to get there, and the stations weren't all that far apart). Some of the activities were timed(including a speed-load for smoothbores, 3 rounds in one minute), most of the shooting was number of shots(max 3 rounds) it took to hit the target, hawk and knife throwing at standing AND moving targets, trap setting(jaw trap and a figure 4 deadfall) and fire starting with flint n steel.
I found it lots o' fun.

quote:

I see lots of shots at gongs seems to me one is just as likely to have a spent ball come back at you from one of those (hard flat surface) as one would from a 12" rock at 75 yds.

Gongs and granite are two vastly different things, but of course if it's limestone or sandstone you're probably just fine. Most steel gongs are suspended and move, and many are not armor plate so actually deform slightly, while absorbing much of the impact. You're right, many modern loads exceed the speed and the hardness of a muzzleloader..., doesn't reduce your risk, merely points out the elevated risk from the modern guns.

Saw a feller shoot at a falling plate in 88, and the plate was on top of a big piece of quartz, at about 40 yards. Shot low, and the round ball bounced right back and hit him in the forehead. Slow enough we saw it in the air, but hard enough to knock him down. Kinda like getting hit with a marble from a slingshot. Raised a realy purty welt from his forehead too.

As for the water, well if ya are in an area that is fully fenced, and ya know nobody else could possibly be near by, you're probably ok. Rifles tend to throw a round off the water in the direction of the twist when the round skips, but a smoothie tends to throw a round when it skips like a Baltimore Chop in baseball, comes in low and hard, hits, and bounces high. Sure, slow, but still enough to whomp somebody.

chuckar? Heck you don't need to be in the hills moving fast to fall. I went chuckar hunting on the 8th in WV, and just walking ya can trip. Ya don't have to run, and when deer hunting ya do move with a loaded firearm if still-hunting. You can fall then too.

LD

KHickam I really like that idea of your shoot! Sounds fun, challenging, and like great exercise.
I would like to do something like that with our group, and I think I will!
We emulate a group of people that constantly took risks not only to survive, but alsdo for the fun of it! And, though safety is important, you can take it too far and ruin a good outing and shoot.

We are digressing a bit. But, the issue of shooting at gongs and such is important. For those concerned about the safety of the practice, here is my experience. At one time, I manufactured and sold metallic silhouette targets. I did a lot of shooting and testing. What I found to be of paramount importance, from a safety standpoint, was that the target MUST be able to move with the impact. A hanging target is OK as the deflection will send the ball down. A falling target is also OK as the ball is directed upwards. A rigid target is dangerous. Example: a 500 meter ram is big and heavy. A big rifle will knock it over. Shooting at it, from closer range, with a .22 can send the bullet back at the shooter because the target won't tip with such a light impact. The incident described sounds like an anomoly when the ball hit the base. Bad news. Glad the guy was not seriously injured.

Repeated the exercise over the course today - adding a level of difficulty by shooting at smaller or more distant targets - results were 3 missed targets out of twenty shots - but the level of difficulty increased also - I also was running a bit faster (if my aching legs are an indication.

Just so nobody gets their breechclout in a wad - I loaded but didn't prime between stations.

KHickam
Other than (gasp, wheeze!) catching your breath, did you notice any great difference in your overall time for the course by waiting to prime?

BTW: is the breechclout used for an over-shot or over-powder wad?

Yes, it was significantly slower (3 times as slow to fire at the target) But, my overall run time was similiar - the advantage to priming at the target is that it gives a little more time to get your breathing under control - and probably resulted in more accuracy at more difficult target - but overall it was not any better from a shooting standpoint.