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Graybeard |
Howdy, A friend inherited his father's Navy Arms Pennsylvania Half Stock Hunter .50cal. It's in fine condition and set up with peep sights for target/hunting. Double set trigger 30" blued barrel. English walnut stock. Purchased in the late 80's. I haven't checked the twist yet to know if t can shoot conicals. Anyone have experience with this rifle? | ||
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Graybeard |
Obviously it's a cap lock. Snce I have never used one what size caps does it take? | |||
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Booshway |
The two most likely choices for caps are No. 11 and Musket Caps. Measure the nipple cone diameter that the cap has to fit over. If it's around 0.17" it's for a No 11 cap. If it's around .250" in diameter, it's a tophat musket nipple. No. 11 nipples tend to have a shorter cone than musket nipples, maybe .440 vs. .475". Go to Track of the Wolf's website, under Gun Parts, then Nipples, and they have pictures and the nipple dimensions (overall length, cone length, threads, etc) along with what size cap the nipple takes. Since nipples get battered over time, or lost during cleaning, it wouldn't be a bad thing to figure out what nipple the gun takes and buy a spare or two. Here's a health to the King and a lasting Peace. May Faction end and Wealth increase....Old Loyalist Ballad | |||
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Factor |
I realize this may be heresy,but I believe there are conversion kits for converting caplocks to using 209 primers,supposed to give more reliable ignition,any comments? Beer is proof that God loves us,and wants us to be happy-B. Franklin | |||
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Graybeard |
SCLoyalist, Thanks. As per usual you got me on the right course. I'll have to determine thread size of the nipple. Track said the .29" tall cone and the .16"diam tip of cone would require a #1 cap. Track and my reading says that Navy Arms used various manufacturers, so that the thread may be a European threading. Since it's a Pennsylvania Hunter it's most likely set up for round ball, but the twist ia about 1/24 which is a better twist for conicals. Barrel is 30" long and I got about 1-1/4 turns. | |||
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Greenhorn |
If it's 1-24 it won't be worth beans for a PRB unless you use really light loads. That's a faster twist than most inlines. Flinter | |||
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Graybeard |
Flinter, Thanks. That's what I was really thinking. Navy Arms was a bit clueless on this. | |||
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Greenhorn |
I just looked for some info on the gun, but it's pretty scarce. I found a couple for sale, but they didn't add anything to what you already know. Flinter | |||
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Graybeard |
Thanks. | |||
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Factor |
Hunting and Shooting are like golf... there's always an "improvement" or a new gadget coming out to fix a problem that's wasn't in need of correction in the first place. Fire two caps through any clean nipple to ensure no lubricants remain, and then load and cap, and you're fine. Rain... cover the cap with a small, softened piece of beeswax after capping the nipple.
I know that's the common wisdom of our time, but it's often not true. The Pedersoli Jaeger rifle, for example, is a 1:24 twist, and it was made for patched round ball with hunting loads. You just don't know until you shoot it, but since it's a Navy Arms, it may indeed be meant for round ball. LD It's not what you know, it's what you can prove | |||
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Greenhorn |
Deep grooves would help with a PRB and fast twist. I suppose if it had those it would shoot good. All the fast twist barrels i've tried with a fast twist were shallow grooves, and I could only shoot light loads. So yes, never say never without trying it. Flinter | |||
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Booshway |
You just don't know until you shoot it. The old thumb rule, a slow twist is a round ball twist and a fast twist is a conical twist is true to a point and a great guide but many times depending on the firearm, not always true. True to the rule: Sharon, my 45 cal Hawken caplock has shot 1 1/8" groups at 100 yds with round balls. That same rifle can't hit the broad side of a barn if shooting from the inside if using conicals. Sweetheart, my 45 cal flint Southern Mountain long rifle doesn't conform to that rule. It can and has also shot 1 1/8" groups at 100 yds with round balls but it has also shot 2 1/2" groups with Maxi balls at the same yardage. Both rifles have the 1 in 72 twist. My Pedersoli 54 Blue Ridge flint long rifle has the 1 in 48 twist and it shoots 1 1/2 to 2 1/2" groups at 100 yds also using round balls. Oh and by the way, Sharon and the Pedersoli, the two 54's, were using a charge of 90 gr of 2Fg GOEX under a patched RB and Sweetheart was charged with 70 gr of 3Fg, GOEX under a patched RB. Yup, you just don't know until you try it. Each firearm makes up their own mind on what they like to shoot, the shooter be dammed. The shooters who haven't figured this out live with disappointment and small target groups. Load fast and aim slow. | |||
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Greenhorn |
I have a TC Renegade (1-48) that will also shoot hunting load (100gr) PRB's very accurately, but still shoot the 460gr NoExcuses conicals as accurately as any fast twist barrel. Almost scary accurate, and the first barrel i've owned that would do both. However, the OP has a 1-24 twist that I assume has shallow grooves. The odds of it shooting a hunting load PRB accurately is going to be rare. I've tried over a dozen inlines with 1-28 twist with PRB's, and not one of them would shoot a hunting load. Just my experience I had when I fooled with inlines. Flinter | |||
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Booshway |
You were lucky, Flinter; I was once contacted by an acquaintance who had a 54 cal TC Hawken and he said it wouldn't shoot better than 3" to 5" groups so I told him to meet me at the range. We met at the range and he shot a 3 shot group at 50 yds with Maxi balls and it wasn't much to brag about. I asked him if I could shoot his rifle and upon receiving permission, loaded it with 90 gr of 2Fg, GOEX and a patched RB. The group I shot was rather small and he surprisingly stated, "That's the smallest group I've ever seen that gun shoot." I let him shoot a few of my round balls and he was quite happy with the results. Then he said, "I purchased the rifle for hunting and wanted to use Maxi balls so what should I do now? I told him his rifle obviously didn't like Maxi balls so if it were me, I'd use round balls only. From his expression, you'd have though I'd spoken heresy or worse. To this day I don't know what he used in his rifle but it is a good case in point that shows that the 1 in 48 twist isn't always the great conical solution. The reason I met him at the range is because I've learned that so often, people will ask for help but when informed of a solution, will not try it or do it correctly. By meeting him at the range and having my powder and balls, I could actually show him what his rifle might do. I didn't know ahead of time that his rifle didn't like conical's but without actually shooting the round balls, I doubt if he would have done it himself. He was just dad set on using Maxi balls. Load fast and aim slow. | |||
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Greenhorn |
Yes, I did get the rare barrel that shoots both. However, it's just average with maxiballs. Going to the longer NoExcuses bullet was the sweet spot. Recoil sucks, but they should put the smack on elk. Of course I use the PRB for deer, and i'm considering using it for elk too. I'd feel a bit better if it was a .54 for elk, but I know the .50 will work. Flinter | |||
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Factor |
One thing about going from metal cartridges to muzzies is the mental adjustment of thinking of .45 caliber as a small caliber for hunting.My whole life I thought of .50 bullets as being marginal anti tank rounds,but now I have to get used to it being just "ok" for taking deer...Heh... Beer is proof that God loves us,and wants us to be happy-B. Franklin | |||
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Graybeard |
.50 caliber PRB for deer it all depends on your hunting ability and shot placement. I've shot 6-7 deer with a .495 prb and they can drop as fast as with a rifle or shotgun slug. You don't take pot shots at running deer. | |||
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Factor |
Lew,as inexperienced as I am,I have learned not to take marginal shots.But thanks for the very good advice,and it is good advice... Beer is proof that God loves us,and wants us to be happy-B. Franklin | |||
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Graybeard |
Boartooth, Didn't mean to imply that for you personally. Hopefully we all avoid those. Just a few years ago I got another one of those I got it in the lower leg (wrist) and it's not stopping that I had to track for several hours. Followed the blood ral all over and finally lost it in the deep woods wth no snow cover about 1/3 q mile away.:-) Last time that happened I broke the deer's leg. As I shot at the heart lung the deer took a serous step down the hill... That one went down on the second shot because it could run on three legs. | |||
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Booshway |
Lew, traditional muzzle loaders are an old shooting system. Most are 'improved' as much as they are going to get. Conicals, 209s, etc. won't "improve" your hunting abilities. If you really want an 'improved' deer hunter, sell or trade that and get a bolt action 30-06. | |||
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