Why would anyone need CAMO if their 300 yds away.Learn to hunt,learn to stalk,learn to track,learn to shoot,then and only then go hunting.Firepower is an EXCUSE,big guns only mean you miss from farther away.
Tin Type nowhere in your posting did I read you were knocking Camo,I did read you were ADMITTING TO YOUR LIMITATIONS,GREAT ON YOU.Takes a big man to admit I can't.
Here in Maine we have to wear 500 Sq " of body florescent orange and a hat of the same,camo are you kidding,like trying to hide at the mall while blowing a whistle,AND driving a Monster Truck. If you can't hunt,DONT,if you can't shoot DONT.

Nope I said several rounds. I know one fellow who bought my old .308, who shoots one round. Then has to wait for it to cool, as it has a short, pencil thin barrel, and he needs to be sure the gun is on target for the first shot. It's not on target for the second unless it cools. He has always made sure the first shot counts, so that don't matter to him. He's a Czech, so follows the European idea, big gun in a little package, good to carry all day, knocks down the deer, and you can use that right arm tomorrow.

He's an old salt, so he doesn't annoy me at all. I sold him the rifle as I needed cash, and he needed a scoped, ultra light rifle as his shoulders won't carry much. He moved out of my area a few years ago to the Maryland pan handle, so he doesn't go very far to hunt. Still trying to get him into charcoal...

As far as deer and vision go..., if you wear solid colors that are "sad", gray, brown, very dark green, and you are in the brush, the deer do not see your outline. I've also seen and used checked and striped... no worries.

Last night a buck came out of the woods and stared at me off an on for about 10 minutes as he walked about 30 yards from me. Now OF COURSE it's currently doe-only so I couldn't add him to the pot. I was in a slate blue hunting shirt standing next to a 4" x 4" post, among a group of post in a vinyard..., I'm not skinny enough to pass for a post. I was facing NE and the sun was to my back, so he got my full outline and silhouette. He moved off when the wind changed. (imho) Most of that cammo stuff is for the eyes of the hunter, except for maybe turkey hunters. My grandfather wore a red wool hunters cap and coat for more than a half century of hunting. Sure modern stuff for personal comfort is fine, don't misunderstand me, just don't fool youself that the cammo scheme has an advantage vs. deer. You will do more for your hunting if you learn to work with the wind and buy a couple of layers of excellent long-johns and socks, than if you go for expensive insulated cammo.

LD

I agree with you LD on the idea that most camoflage being sold is ment for the hunter's eyes. These days even while turkey hunting I don't usual wear "camo." I do wear "Earthy colors" and sit still in the shade with something at my back. Its much cheaper that way.

Last season, while deer hunting in NW Missouri, I met a couple of guys sweated up and near exaustion by 8:30am on opening morning. They were carrying just about as much gear on their backs as Marines on combat patrols. Both had stainless steel inlines with Nikon 4-12 power scopes and one told me his was sighted in for three hundred yards. Neither had been to the area we were hunting before and they had just came up from Texas to hunt a couple of days the "Hard way" then they were going to head over to a buddies property and hunt with their "Real guns." Two others in their party had started from the oposite side of the area that morning and they were all planning to meet up somewhere in the middle. I was glad those guys decided to come up for the season...they sure kicked up a lot of deer.

I admit when deer hunting I wear camo. After 20 years in the military I have a good collection of camo clothes and rain gear. I guess I dont have to since I have to wear orange on game land. When the deer season ends I have two months of small game season left. During that time me and some ALRA buddies hunt squirrels in 1770's clothing. We meet up mid day and cook lunch and coffee over a small fire. Causes some strange looks when we occasionally meet other squirrel hunters in the woods.

You should see the looks my bonnet gets.

I have some property in Texas that I share with my sister. Mind you, Texas has about as many deer as people in the rural areas. Her son, my nephew, hunts it every hunting season with his friends who think I'm nuts for hunting with a muzzleloader AND I refuse to hunt a feeder from a blind yet I always come back with the meat.
They run a feeder all year long, then climb into their blind that is only 100 yds away, and blast 'em with a scoped 30-06. This makes me want to cringe to say it nicely.
Even in my smokeless days I never hunted feeders and always came home with the meat. I think of it as if someone hide behind my refrigerator, they'd be able to shoot me every morning heading to the coffee pot.
We have a real nice muzzleloader club here that I belong to so I don't have to put up with the comments.

I generaly have no proble getting within ML range(smoothbore)wearing period clothing, and not the Walnut type but blues/checks and such, I really do not see deer as that hard to get up on but I think many folks preach the need for camo, smellum-good stuff and all the whistles and bells as being needed to elevate the deer to being a supper critter so they have an exuse when things go south for them.I often hear how the deer winded someone or saw them when in fact they probably heard them slam the doors on their truck and tromp thru the brush way before they could see or smell them

I often get a kick out of watching hunting shows on TV. The hunter is, invariably, dressed up like a model for Cabela's. But, the guide usually is wearing a T-shirt, jeans and an advertising cap. The guide also usually is just wearing sneakers while the hunter has on expensive, and heavy, hunting boots. Nevertheless, I wear camos. Gotta look the part.

I'm late to this fire but see lot's of great opinions here.

I wear camo when bowhunting quite religiously but maybe/maybe not when muzzleloading. I've also come the the conclusion that most camo design, sales and advertising, has little to do with concealment or what an animal can see but is entirely about pleasing the human eye. most camo is just a blob 50 yards out, very little break up. but looks great on the rack in the store

Hanshi reminds of a story. few people would seriously recommend the 30-30 cartridge as a reliable 200 yarder. but put it in a Contender and let someone touch it off, and all of a sudden it feels like a long range cartridge. least that's been the experience with mine

Well now I hadn't thought that inflating the ability of the deer makes you look like more of a hunter in the minds of those not used to deer hunting. lol

Oh I'd still use cammo from the military if I already owned it (for turkey and dove and geese), but mine fits me at 180 lbs. and I'd have to get pneumonia to get back to that weight!

The .30-30 lost rep when they went to jacketed bullets, as it was once an all lead alloy, and hit hard and fast with good impact performance. The jacketed rounds at first simply zipped through the deer. It was also only a 100 yard gun due to the short barrel in many of the popular models and iron sights. Same for the .35 Remington. The Winchester models were not very suited for scopes either, until toward the end of the 20th century. Winchester "fixed" the situation for a while with "silver tips", but craftsmanship also waned a bit as did ammo quality, so accuracy suffered. I know a young man who tried Cowboy Action ammo (all lead, moderate load) one year in his .30-30 lever when the stores were all out of brand name factory loads. Boom! and the deer dropped. He'd never experienced that. (T/C also resurrected the round with single shot rifles.)

Well gee, the bullet did for him what ours do for us all the time. I suggested he get somebody to make him handloads with a nice alloy bullet, and get a really accurate load for his rifle, plus keep the leading down by cleaning and shooting an occasional jacketed round at the range (another problem we don't have).

LD

Dave, you could check some of the designer fashion lines for spandex camo. I still can't find it myself.

Was reading the other day,Handloaders Digest and Cartridges of the World, and most of what I read about the evolution of cartridges come down to one factor.Someone made a bigger,faster more powerful cartridge and we bought it.Think back,45/70, 45/90, 45/110,45/120,still holds true today.Some where improvements some just new packaging.Either way I am waiting for the new improved package!!!!!!!!!!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Walking Crow,

I hunt in an area that is quite small, about 50 acres, it is also very heavy brush. A long shot is forty to fifty feet. I wear an international safety orange cap, and an orang "Visiflage" vest which is a camo pattern in orange and international safety orange. I also fish in the same area, as it borders the Skagit river and has two creeks running into it. I mention that because every time I enter the area I always see fresh bear sign. I see deer every time I enter that area and also elk most times. They have never paid me significant attention until I was within feet of them, not yards. Remember all the orange? Animals are color blind. They can see shades and hues and smell things. Another thing I learned years ago is not to go into "Last of The Mohicans" mode. The area I hunt has people in it more often than not. The animals there are used to that and used to people walking around normally, talking and acting as if they belonged there. So how do you suppose animals react to someone sneaking from tree trunk to brush pile, walking doubled over and whispering? They react as if that person is acting out of character and leave, same as you or I would if we saw someone sneaking down the street dodging behind every mailbox, telephone pole and storefront doorway.

What I'm getting at is if that the animals know you're there, act the same as the humans they are accustomed to do, don't stick out. Another place I used to hunt was heavily managed and logged, so the guy I hunted with who lived and worked there said just to wear Levi's and a jacket with an orange or yellow hat and vest, and to stand up and walk like you were going somewhere, that's what the animals were accustomed to seeing. He got his deer and elk every year and so did I when I hunted with him. The length of a long shot in that area is about 50 to 75 yards. He used a M94 Win. in .32 Spec.

Your mileage may vary.

Three Hawks

Found my way up to Sportco and purchased rain gear for my son. I got pants and a coat with a hood for $60 +.

Guess what color it is? No they didn't have green or yellow, it's camo. I couldn't beat the price.

I could have gotten some green Helly Hansons at 4 times the cost.

Hunting this year is going to be a real challenge. I'm having trouble with my Achilies tendon so it hurts to walk on my heal. The rougher the terrain, the harder it is. Just putting my foot down heal first hurts. I find myself walking flat footed but that doesn't really help either. I'm still looking forward to getting out though.

I think the "great wet dark" as Tin Type put it has started for us. If the rain doesn't let up, I'll have to hunt with my LGP rifle instead of the rocklock.

My son & I saw lots of deer in the early season but couldn't put antlers on them. That was on private property that is located in a Game Unit that isn't going to be open during the late hunt. Rats!

For the late hunt, I'm hoping to get into an area that will be open for either sex. Doe's tast good too.

Load fast and aim slow.

I'm enjoying this thread with all its wandering around and such, and I get the same reactions as everybody else seems to about traditional muzzleloaders.

Guys out there think real black powder is unstable and liable to explode at any moment. They don't think flintlocks will hold together when fired. It's a shame, really, I don't care what they use but I think they're missing out on a lot of fun.

As for the camo thing, I only wear it because I happen to have it. Most of what I have came in the form of Christmas presents from my wife or the kids. I even have a set of those "Scent-lock" coveralls. I view all that stuff like my late father viewed a college degree ("that and fifty cents'll get you a cup of coffee," he'd say). So I'll put on my camo, stay in the shadows, move slowly, and keep the wind in my face. Works good.

Spot

Got to say "If you like it and it works for you,do it" just look at the different persona's on this site,how would it be if everyone had to be one or the other.Hunting /getting it the woods is far to enjoyable to loose part of that worrying or trying to meet others exspectations.
It is the season!!!!!!!!!!!!so get out take a youngster and relearn as you teach them.Amazing what a 4 year old sees at their hight that we miss.

Spot; I look at the Scent-lock stuf as one more ultra modern gimick being offered to get people to drop more money on the counter.

You mentioned hunting with the wind in your face. Make sure its the wind and not the sun. I've found myself facing the sun on several occasions and one time it cost me a deer. It jumped up just as the sun was rising over the hill. I pulled the rifle up, tried to line up the sights and POOF, I may as well have been hit by the headlights at midnight.

Another wicked time is on bright sunny afternoons. The whole forset including the game in it looks like a zebra. Several years back, a deer flushed in front of me and while I was trying to get my sights on it, all I could see was as if a strobe light was at work, the deer was here, then he was there, and the next frame, much like a slide show, it was over there, all in black & white flashes.

What is interesting is the different types of terrain and foliage we all hunt in. I took two garments back to Cabelas because when I got them home and out of doors, I found they would have been great in the eastern oak forests. As far as I was concerned, they would have been worthless in our fir, hemlock, spruce, vine maple, and alder forests. There was absolutly no green in the pattern.

I've only been blessed with the privelage of hunting on private land a few times. Most of the time. I'm on timer Co. land along with the rest of the heard, I mean hunters. I beleive the muzzleloader hunters make up about 6%, and the archers around 30%. Those timerlands become like cony island during the high power hunt.

Hi-power gets to hunt deer in lat October and late buck the weekend befor Thanksgiving. The muzzleloaders get to hunt the first of October, right behind the archers and then for 3 weeks starting on Thankgiving, following the hi-power hunt.

We also get an interesting mixture of hunters and immegrants in the woods. The hunters are hunting while the immegrants are harvesting salal, grasses, mushrooms, and only God knows what else. They don't have to wear hunter orange in the hi-power season because they are not hunters.

Load fast and aim slow.

Whitefinger -

Say, can you hunt the immigrants?

A friend of mine in the wilds of Calif made up a T-shirt that reads, "IF THERE IS A TOURIST SEASON, WHY CAN'T WE HUNT THEM?" It was a good seller, he reports, but only to locals!

Col Boone

I know some states claim to have liberal hunting seasons. Any of you guys ever take them up on it?

Hanshi - I have heard those liberals are darn hard to catch. They make big noise, but when you catch up to them there isn't much there.

Darn poor eatin', too....

Col Boone