Hello the fire. I hunt and shoot only flintlock rifles and fowlers. Most of my friends use centerfire cannons in the 7mm-300 magnum range. I guess deer have become genetically altered over time to withstand the effects of lesser weapons. When I told them I use a .62 caliber fowler they thought I was shooting the cannon and wondered if there would be any deer left. When I told them .62 is a 20 ga shotgun all of a sudden it became MARGINAL for killing deer! Do any of you get this reaction from people who dont shoot blackpowder weapons?

All the time...and especially if you mention a .40cal!!

Oh my GAWD Mich! You dare use a .40 on deer . Ever wonder how many thousands of deer have been killed with that wimpy caliber?

Woods loper, I find you can't make most people understand, and so I don't even try anymore. Case in point, most inline shooters actually beleive they're hunting the "Hard way."

I have a few co-workers that know I hunt with traditional guns. They say they admire "old" guns but they are "serious" about hunting and just don't want to wound an animal. I smile and refrain from argument. Some guys I've hunted with could not stand the thought of missing an opportunity at a deer within range of a scoped 7mm but out of range of a muzzleloader. They even offer to loan me some cannon. As if the flintlock is all I have access to. They just don't get that the limits are self imposed and the best part of any success. When any game is taken the satisfaction of the hunt is directly proportional to the effort put into it. Killing should not be easy.

Lads: This train of thought is why I have given up on going to our local gun club range! The fellows there are all shooting inlines as their "muzzle loaders" and would not even do that but for the extended hunting seasons they provide. It is near impossible for me to concentrate for all the questions, stupid comments, and the like from the assembled "mob" of shooters - not to mention that I had more than enough of the sounds of a firefight many years ago. Muzzleloading rifle reports are one thing, but "children with lots of ammo" blasting away is another thing.

Face it, we are an anachronism to most, and a curiosity to the rest. Best hunt in isolated areas, avoid the "mob" and have fun...far less stressful that way, I think.



Col Boone

quote:

Face it, we are an anachronism to most, and a curiosity to the rest. Best hunt in isolated areas, avoid the "mob" and have fun...far less stressful that way, I think.

I agree, Col. I grew up in IN and now live in WA. My impression of the "regular" season is a panicked indecision on whether to duck or run. Particularly first light on opening day. Sounds like a war zone to me. No thanks.

Interesting, I have a good friend back in IN who has successfully harvested deer with nearly every conceivable legal weapon there is. Except, that is, a flintlock. He told me last year he wanted to do that and likely would in a not-too-distant season. I remember his first deer harvest. He took a nice little buck with a kit-built .45 cal CVA Kentucky long rifle. As I recall, the range was less than five (5) yards. I bet that was a thrill! He hunts his own land in No. IN - just him & his boys, so they do avoid the crowds, as you say.

You know something; it's the same thing over and over. Most of my friends don't use anything that can't mount a 6x18 variable. Seldom do they do any better-or even as well-than I with my flinter. Most think I'M at a disadvantage and refer to me as a "purist". And yes, if they muzzleload it's with a state of the art wonder. Attempting justification, one friend commented, "have you ever seen what a saboted copper hollowpoint can do to a deer"? My answer was, "have you ever seen what a patched round ball can do to a deer"?

We had this same mindset years ago with handguns. The .357 once was the cat's meow till, incredibly they started bouncing off deer. Enter the .41; exit the .41. "Takes a heavy loaded .44 mag to kill even small whitetails, boy", was the wisdom of the publications. Well, I'd been using all three for years with 100% one shot success. Now, unless you use a bullet 300 grains or heavier in a .44, forget about it and get yourself a .480 Ruger as a minimum.

You and I should know by now a prb won't kill a deer. "Maybe" a .62 & 600 grain conicals, but certainly nothing less. Can't believe it took me so long to realize this.

Hanashi - Well, to put it bluntly, "if it was good enough for my (7x great) grandpa, it is good enough for me".

End of discussion.

Col Boone

My charcoal burning in big bore front stuffers doesn't turn many heads any more becasue I'm a regular fixture at the range. That changes when they catch me burning that same black charcoal in the likes of a 303 Brit or 7.62X54R. then they really think I'm nuts.

I'm als one of the very few who makes almost all of my oun bullets, .60 down to .36 for front stuffers and .50 down to 7mm in the bottom feeders.

Very few of them have ever heard of a paper patchd bullet. You can almost see that "somebody call the guys with the straight jackets", when I'm mixing lead bullets wrapped in paper with black powder.

Load fast and aim slow.

White Finger - Perhaps I should have stuck around longer, but the permission to use a beauty chunk of land near home contributed to my departure.

I too run my own ball - only .50 cal so far, but as I got to ship it all in the shipping about doubles the price. My plumbing contractor recently gifted me with about 40 lbs of pure lead scrap, and another fellow, hearing about that, has added about 20 lbs of old insulation lead - used to wrap bundles of wire connections by the Phone Co, he said. These guys find it "cool" that I am making my own ball, so they have gotten into the spirit of it. Most of the time I do it when the wood stove in my little hooch (workroom) is going..let a nice bed of coals develop, open the door and off you go. Nice way to spend an evening.

Col Boone

Sometimes I will ask how much it cost them to shoot for the day and if they can retrieve their lead and reuse it or can I have it to make next weeks rounds,makes them think.Col. watch the boat yards,ballast in sail boats are sometimes lead,sailed out of Point Look Out,MD,on a 28' Catalina,keel weight was 2700 lbs lead,torpedo shaped for shallow draft.
Ever wonder why you see so many In Lines in the Classifieds for sale,Add reading "only shot afew times" and not to many real BP guns???Wonder if the present owner is unhappy!!!!!!!Or their clue phone rang and they answered it.
Remember: Never argue with an idiot,wont be long and those watching can't tell the differance.

TO ALL,

Great post subject... All of the posts are well thought out and bring out a good many points... As stated in my posts, I live in the City of Seattle... An extremely liberial City... We have a get together every New Years Day to watch the Rose Bowl... About 20 - 25 people... At our house... All except 3 have never fired a gun... You can imagine the weird ideas about guns they all have. The fact I shoot a muzzleloader just blows their minds... These are good people, just really, really, uninformed... Makes for interesting conversation....

I am a gun PC person... I belong to the NRA, the NMLRA, the Traditional Muzzleloading Association, the Washington State Muzzleloaders Association, the Shohomish Valley Muzzle Loaders... that is 5 groups...

The first two keep me in the loop as to what our crazy politicians are doing. And ways to stop them. The other three are just good people having fun....


I do not hunt anymore, as the eyes are not safe... I can see the target [bambi] quite well, what I can not see it the idiot in full Camo 300 yards behind bambi... So I shoot at Rendezvous and such, and have a great time... As my eye doctor said this spring, Good news, you perscription has not changed, bad news, you cataracts are getting worse.

As to the bigger and bigger and faster and faster bullets, the Delphi Oracle sez... in 30 years you will need a 120mm smoothbore shooting a HEAT round from your Abrams tank to get bambi!! The heat seeking infrared laser sight will let you shoot it at 3,000 yards. I bet I am right on this...

I laugh at modern, fixed ammuntion shooters in my area. First..., you can't use a rifle to hunt deer in most of my state..., it's shotgun or muzzleloader or bow. I ask guys who drive 1 - 2 hours to get to the counties where one can use a rifle..., Does the deer have a chance to know you are there? How tough can it be for you to snipe a deer? How much does the feeder and the bait cost? How about the gas?

I drive 20 minutes from my house, spend a quarter on my ammo, and come home with a deer. My very first deer with my present rifle I got in the rain, and I had a crowd at the parking area of guys with "modern" guns who got nothing that day, and came to stare at my buck.

One of my favorite things is to watch the "hunters" on TV in towers in fields in Texas, reach out and touch a buck at say 300+ yards. What is amusing is they whisper before the shot, AND...., they whisper after shooting! Plus they are in enclosed blinds, AND are wearing scent block..., if the deer can smell you 20' off the ground at 300 yards, AND can hear you too..., run for cover as they are super-deer and only a kryptonite bullet will harm them. These guys don't understand that they are "harvesters" with sniper rifles, and "hunting" takes more skill.

I love going to the range, especialy in a light cross wind, as I set up so that my muzzle smoke cloud will drift across the front of the modern shooters. When they make sill a$$'d comments, I ask them how far they have to track their deer, if they get one. I point out for me it's "when" I get one, the farthest was 40 yards from where it was shot.

Then there's the idiots who try to tell me "Well you have to get them in close like a bow hunter". I ask them if they think bow hunters regularly shoot between 50-75 yards, and then I show them my 50 yard target and the grouping of the shots. Then I point out that I'm considered an "average" shot among my black powder peers (jaws drop at this). My rifle barrel often shoots better groups than the guys with the modern rifles, especially after several rounds, when their thin barrels are hot and flex, while Trudy stays on target.

LD

Doesn't it just tickle you? Okay, tickle is the wrong word. "Annoy" is more like it. My wife and I had to spend an obligatory afternoon with her friend and husband- he was showing me his hunting apparel and guns (I was thinking, "really? it takes all of this to get a deer?") He showed me his inline and I mentioned that I really enjoy muzzleloaders, in fact I shoot almost primarily my flintlock- to which he replied "why? I go for accuracy."

Funny- he had an old Jukar in his closet. He told me that it had belonged to his gr, gr, gr, gr, gr grandpa and it was a flintlock kentucky (nevermind that it was a percussion Jukar that was made in Spain). Anyhow, I offered to let him have a round ball or two and some powder to shoot the thing. He said he wouldn't bother if it wasn't going to get him the deer. Come to think of it, it's probably good he didn't take me up on that offer- black powder and fools don't mix at all.

Another though on modern vers BP.Most all the BP guys shoot aaaalllloooottt more than the modern guys.All the guys in know that shoot modern go out,the week end before,shoot afew rounds in the gravel pit and call it good.I guess when your putting $25-30+ dollars out for 20 shots it makes you think,for that we get a pound of powder and lead to go with it,and our lead is reusable.On the other hand the BP guys shoot everytime we get a chance.
Ever watch a "hunter" on the TV their all camo and the the guide is in Levis.I figure they dont know their whispering inside the elevated blind cause after the cannon went off they can't hear to much.Always like the high wire game fence in the back ground with the bait pile the deer are standing in,makes for "EXCITING HUNTING".
Might take into consideration the distance you will be shooting at game!!!!Where I live if you can see 100 yds your on a field,not much farming in this area,mostly woods and wood harvested areas.If you want to shoot a deer at say 300yds first you spot it then start walking AWAY so you can get the distance,then if you can still see it go for it.
I load up just as soon as I get out the door cause the woods are 75' out the door no matter which way I go.
Now that Iam retired again,I hunt Mon-Fri,Sat the woods are full of everyone else,cant hunt Sunday in Miane.
Sure wish One Blanket would work his mojo on the weather.Today no wind,temp 35 and predictions of rain for Sat,opening day,My request was for powder snow 4",28 deg and no wind,if he cant get it all,well I guess I can hunt into/cross the wind.Sure is nice to look after the smoke clears and see that deer making snow angles,make the drag much easier to.

I don't know, it's both very funny and a little sad. I'll be at the range 2-3 hours shooting my flintlock and a guy will park on a bench with a scoped "muzzleloading" space rifle, fire three shots and leave. So far I haven't seen an inline shooter fire more than six rounds and it's always off sandbags; never a field position. I don't need a special muzzleloading season but they do get these guys buying more guns-which I like. The inliners always seem a tiny bit surprised that my open sighted groups are about on par with their scoped groups at 50 yards. Don't get me wrong, these are very nice, friendly shooters who are just not into the guns. They are into hunting. That's all. I'd sure like to know I'd turned one or two to the dark side.

Hanshi, you hit the nail on the head when it come to the statement; "friendly shooters who are not into the guns. They are into hunting."

I've been around a few in-lines and have yet to wee one produce an acceptable group. I suppose they can do it, its just that I haven't seen it done yet.

I guess it's like you said, they shoot 6 shots off sand bags and go home.

Load fast and aim slow.

Tin Type: don't knock the camo. Much of the hunting garb being sold today is much better in regard to health than blue jeans etc. Much of it is made specifically for the outdoorsman. I just spent a small fortune on new hunting and rain gear from Cabelas. All of my old stuff shrank between my 60th and 62nd birthday.

Last year my wife got me a loden green (wool) halibut jacket from Woolrich. They called it a Stag Jacket. I wear it under a light camo shirt/jacket.

The camo has allowed me to get so much closer to game. They can see and hear you but they have trouble knowing what you are because it breaks up the silhouette. I will concede that I wear an orange hat so my partners and others can see me. In sertain cercumstances, I've been known to remove the hat and were a camo one. I carry both with me. A case in point: when I have an animal down, I put the camo hat on to keep my (cold toad) head warm while I hang the orange one in a nearby tree. My partner can home in on the orange hat and find me faster. That way I get help faster.

In Washington, we don't have to wear orange during the muzzleloader season. During the high power season, one must wear an orange vest or 400 sq inches of orange.

I've come to love the "Dry Plus" gear they sell at Cabelas. I gave all my old ward-robe away, it didn't fit anyway.

Load fast and aim slow.

Loyalist Dave,
You said: after three rounds. Might it be that the fierce recoil from some of those cannons have them running from the butt plates? That might be the reason they can't shoot a decent group after three rounds.
A .60 rifled Yeager is plenty of gun!
Hombre del Bosque

White Finger,

I am not knocking Camo, but I am like the deer... My tired old eyes can't see it... I don't want to miss Bambi for any reason and get some person I can not see dressed in Camo...

As to modern clothes, I used to climb mountains and have been a believer in modern clothing for the elements... A lot of modern stuff is way better than the old stuff... And a lot fewer pounds of weight.