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Seating a PRB
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Graybeard
posted
I have always wondered why people slam their ramrod several times after seating the ball on the powder charge. Watching the show Hard Riders last night on Nat Geo reminded me of this. I have always used steady pressure on the ramrod to seat the ball against the powder and called it good. I have never had a ball move off the powder charge while hunting (often with the load in for a week or more) using this method and get excellent accuracy. It seems to me that slamming the ball repeatedly could deform the ball and hurt accuracy. Any argument for slamming the ball?


Experience is the best teacher, hunger good sauce.
Osborne Russell Journal of a Trapper
 
Posts: 212 | Location: SW Montana | Registered: 17 December 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hivernant
Picture of Willis Creek
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Couple of observations on ball pounding. Mostly I have observedthis when the bore is fouled and steady pressure will not seat the ball. Comes from my feeling that people patch a lot tighter now. I have also heard that some advantage is gained by compressing the powder giving more power. Don't see the necessity of that. Best accuracy results from consistancy in loading. My conclusion is that repeatedly slamming the ramrod against the ball is an affectation which does deform the ball and detracts from accuracy.


"touch not the cat without a glove"
"Much of the social history of the western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded good. . ." Thomas Sowell
 
Posts: 143 | Location: South of the Arkansas, on the slopes of St. Charles Peak, Colorado territory | Registered: 25 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of Newoodsrunner
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Pab1 a couple of years ago some friends of mine experimented by ramming the ball down on the powder and when they fired into a box filled with rubber the ball was very much distored all most flat on one side they use a very small amount of powder so that it would not penatrate through the box so in my opinion ramming a ball does damage and i imagine it would crush the powder also making it smaller granulars
 
Posts: 461 | Location: SW Okla | Registered: 02 September 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of roundball
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quote:
Originally posted by pab1:
Any argument for slamming the ball?
I never understood it either...I use strong brass ramrods to seat a PRB down with a single power stroke, then lean on it as hard as I can to compress the powder as much as possible...have always enjoyed good shot-to-shot consistency and accuracy.
So for me, since "it ain't broke, I ain't gonna fix it"...LOL


(corrected a couple typos)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: roundball,


Flintlock Rifles & Smoothbores
Hunt Like The Settlers
 
Posts: 1867 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 28 January 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Dick
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I personally regard the bouncing as an affectation which if the ball is seated correctly anyway makes little if any difference, if the rod is not super-heavy.
But what do I know?

Dick


"Est Deus in Nobis"
 
Posts: 2902 | Location: Helena, Montana | Registered: 10 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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When seating a prb I prefer holding the rod just a few inches above the bore and pushing it down a few inches at a time. This way I'm less likely to break a wooden rod when I use one and less likely to bend a metal one. I stop when I feel that slight "crunch" that indicates the prb has reached the powder. I don't compress the powder but maybe I should. Consistency in loading is important for accuracy and compression may be the easiest way to attain it.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3559 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
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I was always taught to seat the bullet firmly and consistantly for best results. I would expect that if the ball is being distorted by excessive force, accuracy would go south very quickly. OTOH, I have frequently seen others, using their wooden ramrods, bounce the rod a couple of times after seating the ball. This may be more of a habit than anything having a benefical effect on loading.


Part Man, Part Critter
Born under the watch of the Great Spirit
 
Posts: 71 | Registered: 26 April 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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I have read a couple things that seem to make sense to me. I do not 'ram' the PRB too hard to seat it and here's why.

I read that the powder will burn a tad faster and more complete if there is air between the granulars. So, by ramming that PRB hard, you are compressing the powder into, more or less, a solid. I do as Hanshi describes and pretty much stop when I feel the PRB seat on the powder. Seems to work well for me, so like Roundball says...I anint gonna fix it.

I also read, with regard to what Willis mentioned as to fouling, that a good swab between shots will make for easier loading. I found this to be very true. The theory is that after the first shot, you have some fouling in the barrel. After the second shot (if not swabbed) some of that fouling (that wasn't pushed down the barrel with the PRB) will get burned onto the barrel and every subsequent load and shot will burn more fouling onto the barrel. So, a swab afer every shot basically cleans some of that fouling out making it much easier to load the next shot. I have found this theory to be true through experimentation of my own. So now, I always swab between shots...especially at the range.

Just some things I have read and found to be helpful to me.

L8R...Ken
 
Posts: 403 | Location: In the Hardwoods of Eastern Iowa | Registered: 15 November 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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I don't swab between shots but it doesn't hurt to do it and many benefit by doing it. Grease lubes, in general, DO require swabbing at least every other shot. When using grease lubes in the past I swabbed every shot or two.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3559 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Graybeard
Picture of MedicineSoldier
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I'm not sure what is actually being considered as slamming the ramrod. Dropping or bouncing the ramrod on the load is an indication if the ball is seated. If the ramrod (a wood one anyway) bounces it shows that the ball is seated. If it fails to bounce there is still a space between the powder and ball. An easy way to check to see if the ball is seated either during loading or later to assure that a ball is still seated.

Medicine Soldier
 
Posts: 219 | Location: Black Hills of SD | Registered: 05 October 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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I bounce my rod just as MedicineSoldier said to be sure that it is seated. I certianly don't bounce it hard enough to do anything to the ball. I'm not sure it makes a difference but I don't see a reason to change it.

BC


"Better fare hard with good men than feast it with bad."
Thomas Paine
 
Posts: 649 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 27 June 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of Newoodsrunner
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that is why i have two lines marked on my rod one e for empty and l for loaded
 
Posts: 461 | Location: SW Okla | Registered: 02 September 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Graybeard
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quote:
Originally posted by Newoodsrunner:
that is why i have two lines marked on my rod one e for empty and l for loaded


Thats what I do also.


Experience is the best teacher, hunger good sauce.
Osborne Russell Journal of a Trapper
 
Posts: 212 | Location: SW Montana | Registered: 17 December 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of Walkingeagle
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I too use reference marks on my ramrods. I do not use crushing force to seat, just a firm seating.
 
Posts: 342 | Location: Alberta, Canada | Registered: 15 January 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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Though I know others who "bounce" the rod I seldom do it. I've never seen any benefit in the practice nor have I ever seen any harm. With all due respect to those who do "bounce", I really don't see the point.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3559 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of captchee
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I will have to admit that im one of those folks who bounces their rr .
But I also know that if I do it to hard or more then a couple times , the accuracy suffers .
So why do it . Well a couple reasons
a) like the others have mentioned , it tells me the ball I seated without looking for a mark . IE I don’t take my eyes off the target
b)
Since I use my own cast balls , with the spru up . I feel that the cupped end of the rod actually helps round out the spru some
But as I said , one can go over board .

If one really wants to see what deforming a ball can do , all they have to do is spike the ball .
There used to be jags on the market that purposefully would put an impression on the ball .
One was a simple spike and the others a +
The spike would enlarge the ball just like it was a hollow point . The + spread the ball and you cot a wide + type of hole in the target .
 
Posts: 687 | Location: Payette ,Idaho | Registered: 23 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Graybeard
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One thing I had not considered when I started this topic was muzzle/crown wear from the rod slamming up and down, side to side around the barrel. When I seat a ball I try to keep the rod from touching the barrel. It seems to me that beyond just deforming the ball, hurting shot to shot accuracy, bouncing the rod would increase muzzle/crown wear and effect the guns accuracy in the long run.


Experience is the best teacher, hunger good sauce.
Osborne Russell Journal of a Trapper
 
Posts: 212 | Location: SW Montana | Registered: 17 December 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of captchee
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for the most part , for the last 20 years i been shooting the same gun at events .
which consists of 20-30 lbs of powder used each year . that gun also has a hand forged Iron barrel . I have seen no unusual muzzle wear nor has it effected my accuracy .
now if one is using a fiberglass rod ?? ya i could see where there maybe some muzzle damage
 
Posts: 687 | Location: Payette ,Idaho | Registered: 23 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Graybeard
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Thanks for the info Captchee!


Experience is the best teacher, hunger good sauce.
Osborne Russell Journal of a Trapper
 
Posts: 212 | Location: SW Montana | Registered: 17 December 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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A couple of my observations on "bouncing" the ramrod.

First, I have see them "bounce" with a ball stuck half way down a bore, and it took actual smacking of the ball by holding the wooden or metal rammer in the hand, and hitting the ball to force it beyond the fouling.

It is not necessarily an indication of the ball being seated.

I judge the ball to be seated when the line scribed on the ramrod is level with the muzzle as I use the same powder charge every time.

Now when I see folks bounce a ramrod more than once, I often ask "Did the bullet offend you?" For taking one's rod and rapidly moving it toward the ball then releasing it before impact does not give you a consistent impact pressure. I don't see any advantage of this over simply seating the ball with a firm pressure. Compressed powder is compressed powder. If one had some sort of lever contraption, then I'd think one could consistently seat the ball with uniform pressure from shot to shot. But I have my doubts about the folks who whack the dog-snot out of every shot.

It does obdurate the ball, which in some patch and ball combinations may be advantageous. So perhaps my dog-snot characterization is missing the point. I know that when I have asked folks who whack their bullets against the powder by bouncing the ramrod several times, NONE have mentioned bullet obduration as the reason. Some have said, though, "That's just how I was taught".

I use a plain, wooden rod, so bouncing would damage the wood. OH and I have seen folks with both metal tipped, and all metal rammers, damage the tip of the rod, so that it breaks off or comes loose, by slamming it several times each shot against the patched ball. Eeker

That's just me. If a person has a loading procedure that produces accurate shots each time, then like in baseball, don't change what works for you!

LD


It's not what you know, it's what you can prove
 
Posts: 3843 | Location: People's Republic of Maryland | Registered: 10 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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