Can anyone give me some info on these and value for a full stock 50 cal cap gun, immaculate inside and out?

Hatfield rifles were made in St. Joe MO in the late 1970's through the mid 90's. The early production were marginally better than the CVA guns of the time. Later ones were even worse.

They are going for around $500, but IMHO, they are waaaaaaayyyy over priced for what they are.

I remember that in mid production and later, some guns had good, accurate barrels, some didn't. Some had decent locks, some didn't. And some had bad barrels and bad locks.

As mentioned earlier, later ones were absolute junk.

Maybe the reason this gun is immaculate is because it wasn't any good and the owner just stuffed it into the closet to get it out of sight ?

quote:

Originally posted by BEAVERMAN:
Can anyone give me some info on these and value for a full stock 50 cal cap gun, immaculate inside and out?

I have seen two sell in Los Angeles for $700.00 each...

The one that I have, is one hell of a lot better than JD says...??? What gives...???

Bill

"absolute junk" is a relative term, I guess...I would not so call them "junk", however $700 is waaaay too much for one. For that and a few more dollars you can get a brand new rifle from The Avants {TVM} or several other makers which would be much better. I have seen several priced at $500 and would pass on that price, too. But if I stumbled upon one for say $200 [I understand someone did recently] I might snap it up. The modern day Blue Ridge and some other named models from Pedersoli are essentially the same rifle with poorer wood. Some of the early Hatfields were pretty guns and shot well.

Beaverman, You haven't stated what the price is on the Hatfield you're looking at. If it's a bargain, you probably won't get hurt. The points about the Hatfield that I couldn't appreciate were the non-authentic way the barrel was attached or anchored to the stock, with screws going in through the ramrod pipes and into the bottom of the barrel. Another point is simply in the lines of the stock and the contours along the forearm. Those stocks were basically formed by a carving machine and human hands did very little in the making of those rifles. We've seen, in many other cases, how it is very difficult to duplicate an early handmade rifle with modern machinery and get it to look or feel the same. And, like Mike R said, if the asking price is "up there" to the tune of $700 or so, I think you will get a lot more for your money by going to Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading and ordering what you would really like. (Hey, Mike, ol' pard, their last name is Avance, or the Avances.) To be brief about it, the Hatfield Rifle Works appeared as repeated failures. First those guns were made in this country and they went out of business. Then they re-appeared with the guns, or at least most of the components, made in other countries and, again, they went out of business. Following that they re-appeared again with a changed design, a halfstock, under the name of Austin & Halleck and they went out of business a third time. Some of the folks who bought those rifles have really enjoyed them and swear by them. However, most of the owners of those guns, at least the ones I've known, have been left swearing at them. They do have a reputation that makes a used one hard to recommend. Shoot sharp, Mike

Many years ago when I was making a transition to
flint I saw a Hatfield ad in Cabelas. A finished flinter with extra fancey tiger curley
maple for $425. Right out of the box the
frizzen broke, then later the main spring with
continuous misfire problems. Someone told
me the touch hole was not centered or bored straight. I went to Germany and at a rendezvous
in Stuttgart there one on a traders table for
$1200 dollars U.S. (honest).
A shooting companion offered me $900. and I
took it. Luis never had a lick of trouble
with it after I had worked the bugs out.
Would buy one again at any price, yes if it
was cheap ($400 or less). I'd hang it over
the mantle.

I have had mine since 1989, I have hundreds maybe thousands of rounds through mine, I've done about everything with it, hunting and competition shooting and I've grown to really love that rifle. BUT let me digress for a moment, with the internet there is a whole lot more advertising going on and finding people who build custom rifle is a whole lot easier to do.
The brass ramrod pipes were torn through by heavier loads and recoil, they were replaced, the main spring broke, twice, the jaw screw's threads wore out, the sear spring broke, both of the bridle plate screws wore out, again threads. At first I had trouble with consistant ignition, so much so that I started using a German industrial agate that dented up my frizzen so bad I had to stop using it. I experimented by boring a bigger hole in the touch hole liner and for some reason solved the problem.
BUT, when it is feed a diet she likes it is an incredibly accurate rifle and I have not hesitated to put her up against some of the best, Colerain, Rice, Getz and you name it she can hit.
Would I buy another, NO, would I give up mine with all of those experiences with it...NO.

Thanks for the feedback gents! I posted this question for an gent in Carson City NV, new shooter, contacted me and was asking about the Hatfield, to tell the truth, Ive never seeen one, hes found one thats has a $500 price tag on it but the owner of the shop is willing to haggle, once you metioned Austin Halleck, forget it! I agree with you Mike Nesbitt, if I was going to spend $700 and buy a rifle instead of building a rifle;Id save a couple more and go see Dave Dolliver and have one built, knowing full well that my money was well spent and I was getting a quality product! Thanks again for all the info gents!

This is a nice web page on the Hatfield firearms with great pictures...

http://www.100megspop3.com/oldvalkyry/hatfield.html

Bill

I apologize for misspelling Avance as Avant--my bad! But their guns are good!

quote:

But their guns are good!

Hey, Mike, you bet! Keep givin' Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading the good word. Shoot sharp, Mike

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Nesbitt,

Thanks for posting that site I had lost it, the gun on the bottom (on striped blanket) was one I had ten years ago, it shot very well, was a bit hard on flints, I think at the time it was around $400 in the white which was the option I chose, later they went up in price to a point that TVM or others were a much better deal, I sold mine to a fellow who converted it to caplock, overall they were not very PC and priced above actual value. I would think that one in excellant condition that was a good shooter and had good wood would sell in the 300 dollar range now, I have seen them sell higher lately but don't see that value there myself.

I find it odd that folks had problems with their Hatfield rifles, but my experience was toward the end of that company's life. Following Last of The Mohicans, a friend got a .50 flinter from Hatfield. I didn't like the barrel finish as they rounded the edges of the flats when the polished it before they blued it. I also, like Mike N, didn't like how they attached the barrel to the stock by going through the ramrod pipes. It functioned quite well. About four years later I bought a Blue Ridge Hunter in .50 from Cabela's, and discovered that it was the same rifle, under that company's name. Both were made by Pedersoli, contracted to those companies.

My rifle shot fine, with very few problems. the later Hatfields then ARE Pedersoli guns, and the Hatfield name DOES NOT make them more valuable. In fact if I was placing a price on the Pedersoli Hatfield vs. the Pedersoli Blue Ridge Hunter, I'd give higher value to the Cabela's Blue Ridge Hunter, for at least they didn't screw up the edges of the barrel flats when finishing the gun!

They go for $550 new as a flintlock. YES there are some goofballs on gun auction sites that are asking $600+ for Pedersoli Hatfields, but they don't seem to sell for that (nor should they). A caplock NIB and Unfired I'd offer $400 and no shipping charges as you won't have any warranty. Otherwise, just get a new BRH from Cabela's at $520.

LD

Dave, if you compare the two locks, they are not the same. The Pedersoli lock has a three screw bridle plate, my Hatfield lock has a two screw bridle plate.
The main spring and tumbler are hooked together with a spur on the Pedersoli lock, on the Hatfield lock the end of the main spring has a hook that presses on a flat spot on the tumbler, there is no spur.
The main spring on the Hatfield is held by a screw on its end whereas the Pedersoli there isn't a screw. Plus the mainsprings are totally different shaped.
I don't know who built the Hatfield lock on my rifle, but they are completely different.

quote:

Originally posted by Crawdad:
Dave, if you compare the two locks, they are not the same. The Pedersoli lock has a three screw bridle plate, my Hatfield lock has a two screw bridle plate.
The main spring and tumbler are hooked together with a spur on the Pedersoli lock, on the Hatfield lock the end of the main spring has a hook that presses on a flat spot on the tumbler, there is no spur.
The main spring on the Hatfield is held by a screw on its end whereas the Pedersoli there isn't a screw. Plus the mainsprings are totally different shaped.
I don't know who built the Hatfield lock on my rifle, but they are completely different.

Hatfield used several different lockmakers throughout the production run. Early locks were generally good, mid period locks were generally ok, for the most part. The late ones were junk.

This is for the guns build by Hatfield in St. Joe. I can't speak for the other "Hatfield" manufacturers.

As Mike said, the various companies that put their version of the Hatfield as main product have all failed. If the product were any good, at least one of those companies would have prospered. As it stands, Only Pedersoli can seem to make its Hatfield clone a viable product. And I suspect that is the case only because they used to sell them so cheap. They are no longer cheap. Cheaply made, but not cheap to the American consumer.

IMHO, Early Rustic, TVM, and several other American manufacturers offer a much higher quality product for only a slightly higher price. A much better value, IMHO.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: J.D.,

There are several Pedersoli flintlock rifles that are long rifles, and Pedersoli may have made internal changes to their lock. The Hatfield that I saw in 1993 was exactly the same externally as the Cabela's Blue Ridge Hunter that I bought a few years later. The wood was a little better on the Hatfield, and the barrel was blued not browned. The Hatfield that I saw was the last version they made before going out of business, so who knows?

LD

I agree J.D. and Dave, they're not worthy of soooo much print as even back in the 70's there were much better rifles.
However I want to make something clear I wasn't being critical of Pedersoli, as my barrel I know is a Pedersoli and it is a great barrel, the lock, like you guys have said I have no idea where it came from. Pedersoli makes a great product and should in no way be blamed for the Hatfield business failures!!!

I purchased one in about 1980.Lock and barrel were engraved Hatfield.Barrel was browned with sharp angles off the flats. Outstanding wood.I won a lot of shoots with that gun and took deer and antelope with it.
Do I own "better" quality guns now? Yes. Would I buy another used? Probabley not.
That said I would not part with the one I have.
J.R.

The Blue Ridge rifles have browned barrels. As far as I know, they are the same as the hatfield. I'm not in the know concerning the Hatfields but it seems likely that they did contract out for different locks. Companies do strange things when they are next to goin out of business.

The Blue Ridge rifles have a 1 in 48 twist except the 54, which is 1 in 56. They also come with a tow plat now. They would make thse good changes after I bought mine.

I purchased mine for hunting and if I had known what the breech was like, I'd have made a different choice. The good points were the fact that it is a long rifle, a flintlock in 54 caliber, its brownd barrel, and affordable. The bad points were its 1 in 48 twist and no toe plate. I could live with those. I just didn't know about it's pattent breech that needed to visit a gun smith to eliminate inconsistant ignition.

Load fast and aim slow.

Got to agree with you on the breech issue.
Another prolem with it was that the cleaning jag got stuck in it.