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Pilgrim
posted
The post about the Green River Barrel Co. got me motivated to post some pics of a recent addition to my collection. You don't come across a GRRW Trappers Pistols very often, and I don't recall seeing pictures of one like this posted on any of the muzzleloading forums.













If you are interested in some specs on the pistol, it has a 1" x 8", .54 caliber barrel. The lock is a small Siler percussion that has had the point of the tail squared off. The nose cap is poured pewter and the ram rod is 3/8". It has a Kentucky style fixed breech plug and a drum and nipple configuration similar to what they used on the Leman Trade Rifle. It has Don McKee's makers mark. The belt hook may have been fabricated in the GRRW shop as I don't recall seeing a commercially available one like it. The rear sight and probably the front sight were also made in the GRRW shop.

Their 1979 Catalog/Price List said their pistol barrels were available in 1:60 and 1:20 twists. This pistol has the slower 1:60 twist. That's not much twist in an 8" barrel. I haven't shot it yet as winter arrived here in
Denver about the time I received the pistol, but I expect it to shoot about like a straight rifled barrel or even a smooth bore. I don't have any experience with shooting muzzleloading pistols, so I could be pleasantly surprised.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Meek,


Phil Meek
 
Posts: 78 | Location: Denver | Registered: 19 August 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hivernant
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NICE side arm !!


Keep inside the tree line, Don't let 'em know where yer bedded. Some have less than you do and my be inclined to try and take what little ya have.
 
Posts: 107 | Location: The Soviet Socialist state of Connectitax | Registered: 29 May 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Very nice


The best thing about owning a dog is that someone is happy when you get home.
 
Posts: 959 | Location: Alabama | Registered: 09 December 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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That's a pistol I like; would've preferred 1-20", though.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3559 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
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Has anybody had any experience shooting a pistol with a slow twist?

I plan on trying my standard combination of .530" and .535" balls with .015" and .020" patches lubed with Hoppes 9 Plus lube. My GRRW rifles seem to prefer the .535" ball and .020" patch.

The grip and trigger placement fit my hand perfectly.

Back in February 1977 issue of BUCKSKIN REPORT, Mike Nesbitt published an article, "Some Thoughts On Pistols", where he briefly mentions trying a GRRW Trappers Pistol. He didn't care for it too much as you can read in this excerpt.



If the pistol pictured in the article is the one he tried, it appears to be somewhat different than mine. Probably an earlier version. Mike even alludes to this in the article. The one in the article has some of the features of their first model Leman Trade Rifle with the Kern coil spring lock. Doc White on his website credits the recently deceased Phil "Blue Jacket" Sanders with re-designing and improving the quality of their guns. I suspect that Blue Jacket's influence resulted in the improved grip on my pistol and eliminated the bulkiness that Mike writes about.

By the way, check out Doc's site if you are interested in the early history of GRRW and seeing some old pictures of the GRRW crew at work along with pictures of their early guns and catalog. Doc has been updating and adding to this page recently.

Doc White's website on GRRW history

If you like what you see, send Doc an email (doc@whitemuzzleloading.com) and tell him so and encourage him to keep adding to page. He says he has oodles of material in his files that he could post.


Phil Meek
 
Posts: 78 | Location: Denver | Registered: 19 August 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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Phil try 25 to 30 grs. of both 2F & 3F when you get around to firing the pistol. Mike was trying to kill a bear or something. No wonder the trigger guard bit him.
Bob
 
Posts: 29 | Location: Derby Kansas | Registered: 30 March 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Dick
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Mike has readily admitted to having had "overloaditis" in his earlier years. Less powder is fine, as Windriver says.

Dick


"Est Deus in Nobis"
 
Posts: 2902 | Location: Helena, Montana | Registered: 10 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Yes, in those early years I liked heavier loads. And please remember, those heavier loads were recommended by GRRW. That picture of the pistol taken by Ken Iddins was snapped while the gun sat on a post on my corral. Very shortly after that picture was taken, maybe the same day, I bought that pistol from Ken and it certainly did serve to influence my tastes in pistols for later years. It was a stout pistol, for sure, but a bulky one too. Shoot sharp, Mike
 
Posts: 3531 | Location: Pacific Northwest | Registered: 25 October 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
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Wow, you guys! I was looking at Lyman's BLACK POWDER HANDBOOK AND LOADING MANUAL (copyright 2001), and its starting load for a .54 caliber pistol is 35 gr and goes up to 50 gr. The barrel length is the same as mine but their test barrel is a fast 1:30 twist. I shoot 25-30 grs in my cap & ball pistols! Is this what happens when you do too much Cowboy Action Shooting? I'm funnin' ya, of course.

I'll try the loads you recommend since, like fine wine, we all tend to mellow with age.

Hey, Mike, do you remember many of the details of that pistol in the article? Do you recall if that was a Kern lock on it? Hard to tell in the photo, but looks like it might be.


Phil Meek
 
Posts: 78 | Location: Denver | Registered: 19 August 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Meek, No, I don't recall which lock it had. That pistol was swapped away back in the 70s, I didn't keep it a real long time. And now I shoot a .54 percussion Hawken style pistol but it has a much better shaped trigger guard, one that won't "wedge" and trap your middle finger. My favorite load behind the patched .526" ball is 30 grains of FFg. That's no hot rod for speed but it does perform rather well. As you say, 'mellow." Shoot sharp, Mike
 
Posts: 3531 | Location: Pacific Northwest | Registered: 25 October 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Meek; I have one of those handguns. It has been my understanding that only 12 were ever made. I don't have proof of this but I purchased the gun many years before I came on that information.

I shoot 15 to 20 gr of 3Fg, GOEX in mine and it does just fine.

I've shot it in competition but most often use a 45 cal caplock with a 10" barrel or a 45 rocklock with an 8" barrel. If I'm in the mood to do great, I use the 45 caplock, if I just want to make a statement and use all flint, I use the 45 rocklock. There is a noticable difference in the recoil between a 15 gr charge in a 45 and a 15 gr charge in a 54. It's not unbereable, but just niticable. The trigger pull on my 45 caplock and it's 10" barrel allows me to do so much better when competing while shooting those crazy steel critters.

I purchased the 54 pistol to go along with my Sharon Gun Barrel half stack Hawkin rifle.

Something I've learned about the pistol is that it has a tight bore. I have to use .526 balls with a .015" patch or if and when using .530 balls, a .010" patch.

My Sharon takes the .526 ball and a .020 patch or a .530 ball and a .015 patch as does my lyman GP rifle and my Pedersoli 54 rocklock Blue Ridge rifle.

Load fast and aim slow.
 
Posts: 1726 | Location: Pacific Northwest | Registered: 08 March 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
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Thanks for the load info, White Finger. They are forecasting a white Christmas here in Denver, so I don't know when I will get to the range with the pistol and try out the loads. Your comment about the tight bore is helpful. I'll be sure to take some .530" balls with me and some thinner patches just in case. I don't have any smaller balls than the .530".

What is the twist rate on your GRRW pistol? Is it the fast or slow twist.

I don't know how many pistols GRRW made. Mine is SN P-79, and a friend has one of the smaller flintlock versions that is SN P-100. So, it looks like at least 100 were made. Is your serial number higher or lower than these two?

White Finger, can you post or email (plmeek@comcast.net) me some pictures of your GRRW pistol to add to my files?

As a side note, I have a Sharon Barrel Co half-stock and full-stock in kits that I bought over 30 years ago. I messed up the stock on the full-stock back then, got frustrated, and set them aside. I'll get back to them after I retire in a year or two, but will finish them in a different configuration based on what I've learned about original Hawken rifles in the intervening years.


Phil Meek
 
Posts: 78 | Location: Denver | Registered: 19 August 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Meek; I don't know what the twist rate is and since it shot well with 15 and 20 gr of 3Fg powder, it didn't really matter.

You're not going to beleive this but mine is P-80.

I purchaed my Sharon kit in 1972 and later figured that I would never get it built. I wrote a letter to Sharon and the answer I got back was that by that time they had gone out of business and therefore had forwared my letter to one of his barrel makers. That man, Terry Huffman contacted me later and I had him build the rifle for me. It has shot 1 3/8" groups at 100 yds off the bench using both .526 and .530 round balls. By the way, that was with 90 gr of 2Fg GOEX.

When the weather gets better, I might get you those pictures and send them to you. No promisses, but it has to wait for better weather.

Load fast and aim slow.
 
Posts: 1726 | Location: Pacific Northwest | Registered: 08 March 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
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Well, it seems like spring was a long time coming here in the Rockies. I finally had some free time on a day of good weather and got to the range with the Trappers Pistol.

While waiting on the warm up, I ordered some 0.526" cast round balls from TOTW and am glad I did. My pistol, like White Finger's, has a tight bore. After shooting it, I was going to try cleaning the front of the plug with a fouling scraper, and it would just fit into the muzzle of the pistol but was too tight to be able to rotate it. I measured the diameter of the scraper and it is 0.532", so that appears to be the bore diameter.

Not knowing the bore size when I took it to the range, I first tried to load a 0.530" swaged round ball with a 0.010" patch, lubed at the bench with Hoppe's 9 Plus lube. I couldn't push it in with my bullet starter. I had to hammer it in. I rammed it on down, and it shot ok, but didn't try shooting any more of that size ball.

I got out the 0.526" cast balls and tried them with the 0.010" patch and Hoppe's lube. They required a pretty good bump of the starter with my hand to get them started, but not much pressure to push them down and seat them.

Based on the advice I received here, I did all my shooting with 30 grs of GOEX FFg. Recoil was easily manageable. As I mentioned earlier, the shape of the grip and distance from the trigger guard fits my hand well. The only time the trigger guard bumped me was with a two-hand hold and I had an overlapping finger touching the trigger guard. No problem with a one-hand hold whatsoever.

Here's some of the shooting results at 12.5 yds (the only distance allowed for pistols at the public range I normally go to). All shooting was done from the bench with a 6 o'clock hold on the black. As can be seen in the photos, the pistol was shooting about 4" high at 12.5 yds. I don't know if the trajectory would put it right on the bulls eye at 25 yds or not.

On this first target I was just getting used to the pistol and the sight picture. There are 10 or 11 shots on the target. I believe at least five shots are touching each other at 11 o'clock in the 10 ring. They weren't in sequence, though.


On this next target, I tried seeing what type of group I could get. I had trouble lining up the sweet spot in my invisible line bifocals my with the pistol's sights, which caused the group to spread a fair bit. When I was able to get a consistent sight picture, I was able to get some decent two shot groups.


This last photo is of some of the patches that I picked up. The tight weave of the 0.010" Ox-Yoke patches held up well.


The patches in the first and second rows have the powder side up and show the increased fouling stain of latter patches in the second row. The patches in the third row are shown with ball side up to illustrate that there was no cutting or burning of the patches.

I was pleased with how the pistol shot and a little surprised that the 1:60 slow twist performed so well. I don't shoot any better than this with my modern cartridge pistols.


Phil Meek
 
Posts: 78 | Location: Denver | Registered: 19 August 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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