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northwest trade gun build
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Hivernant
Picture of Johnny Reb
posted
I was wondering if anyone here has had dealings with Pecatonica river supply.
I'm looking at buying a north west trade gun kit from them. I first called north star west but their not taking any more orders due to the fact their going out of business.
This is my first build so I'm open to any suggestions.
Thanks


"All tyranny needs to gain a foot hold is for People of good conscious to remain silent"
Thomas Jefferson
 
Posts: 110 | Registered: 20 March 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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I have not dealt with them myself in 15 or 16 years, but back then they gave prompt good service.

Just a couple of years ago I had a custom chunkgun made for me from mostly Pecatonica parts. The maker had no problems with the company.

Pecatonica says that their guns are not kits. They supply all the parts you need for a gun type, but it is up you you to put it together. If you want to, you can swap out some parts to make your own unique gun.

This year I am considering getting all the parts for a left-hand version of Pecatonica's "A.Vernor" rifle to build for myself. Not too many companies offer left-hand guns.

I like Pecatonica.


Know what you believe in. Fight for your beliefs. Never compromise away your rights.
 
Posts: 880 | Location: Cherokee Land, Tenasi | Registered: 06 January 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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You might consider Sitting Fox Muzzleloaders if you are looking for a "kit". You can get parts, partially assembled such as inletting of the barrel lock and trigger, and you finish the small parts polishing and installation, OR you can get the gun finished.

LD


It's not what you know, it's what you can prove
 
Posts: 3644 | Location: People's Republic of Maryland | Registered: 10 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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You might try Caywood. they have an extensive lineup including Fusils (French) Wilson trade guns, and Northwest trade guns. They will provide 36 or 40 1/2" barrels. On their Northwest guns, they will provide either a nailed or screwed but plate. They will provide either non bridled or a bridled frizzon. My 20 gauge 36" barreled Caywood NW gun weighs the same as my grandpa's 1878 Northwest Barnett tradegun.

Caywood will provide kits, kits with all holes pre-drilled, or fully completed firearms. I purchased the kit with all holes pre-drilled.


Hope this helps.

Load fast and aim slow.
 
Posts: 1723 | Location: Pacific Northwest | Registered: 08 March 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of Deadeye
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Hey Johnny,

I've dealt with Pecatonica for years....never had a bad deal and always good help.
 
Posts: 1427 | Location: Good Ole USA of course! | Registered: 15 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Free Trapper
Picture of TurkeyCreek
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I haven't actually dealt directly with P.R. since the mid '80s. My experience at that time was A+ and to my knowledge they are still the same bunch. Track of the Wolf uses all or mostly Pecatonica River stocks and I have no complaint about those stocks at all. I wouldn't hesitate using P.R. if they had what I wanted.


"They do not live their lives 'by your leave'! They hack it out of the wilderness with their own two hands, bearing their children along the way!" - Cora Monroe - "Last Of The Mohicans"
 
Posts: 186 | Location: Turkey Creek on Cimarron Drainage | Registered: 10 September 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hivernant
Picture of Johnny Reb
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Thanks Guys for all your help and advise. I will be ordering a NW Trade gun from Pecatonica river today. I was going to order Lancaster rifle kit from Jim chambers, but I wanted a smooth bore instead.


"All tyranny needs to gain a foot hold is for People of good conscious to remain silent"
Thomas Jefferson
 
Posts: 110 | Registered: 20 March 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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Look at this page, have one built correctly. Read the reasons why some builders are not paying attention to today's shooters, correct stampings, LOP or drop in the stock. If you can't get your head down low enough to see the barrel flats or if you can and get kicked in the cheek bone it will become another wall hanger. At today's prices none of us need wall hangers. See:
http://grrw.ca.tripod.com/page.12.html

These are light thin barreled guns (custom made for correctness) like the originals. Most original trade guns are in the 4.2 lb to 5.1 lb range not the 6.8 lb to 7.2 lb range like you are looking at. They are all using the same barrel with thick walls whether its a .30 gauge or a .28, .24, or .20 gauge. Think about this and read this website page.
 
Posts: 13 | Location: Lehi, Utah | Registered: 09 December 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of Notchy Bob
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In response to the original question, no, I don't have any first-hand experience with Pecatonica River Supply, but they do have an excellent reputation.

Thanks, Buck, for the link to the GRRW Collectors' Association Northwest Gun page. It was interesting. If I understood it correctly, the writer was saying most northwest gun reproductions, as well as a great many originals, had insufficient LOP and drop, but a few makers, including H.E. Leman, built their Northwest guns with a longer LOP and greater drop. The GRRW-CA appears to have chosen a Leman to copy for their Northwest gun.

Interestingly, the complaint is not new. Charles Hanson, quoting the Secretary of the Hudson's Bay Company in 1861, wrote that the "Indians complain of the stocks being clumsy, and finished without taste..." (The Northwest Gun, page 42). In Trade guns of the Hudson's Bay Company 1670-1970, James Gooding noted similar complaints, and discussed "drop" at some length on pages 67 and 68. Gooding also speculated that the Indians (who were the primary consumers of Northwest guns) had a different way of holding and firing the gun.

Neither author had much to say about the length of pull. I do think it's important to note that these were called "Northwest guns" because that's where most of them were originally sold. It gets cold up there! It's one thing to shoot your gun on a warm day, wearing a thin linen shirt, and quite another to shoot while wearing multiple shirts and a heavy blanket capote. In the latter case, you would likely need a gun with a shorter LOP.

One other important point is that people then and now come in different shapes and sizes. As for myself, I'm about five foot six inches, and weigh right at nine stone Wink. I have two Northwest guns, a 20 gauge from Northstar West and a 24 gauge from Caywood, both with 36" barrels. I haven't measured the drop. Both were cut to a LOP of 13½" at my request. Both fit me very well. I can close my eyes, bring either gun to shoulder, open my eyes, and see the plane of the barrel right in line with my dominant eye, and the front sight is right there where you want it. If I shoulder a gun or rifle with too much drop, the front sight drops below the plane and I have to hunt for it. If the LOP is too long, recoil feels increased, and if the LOP is much to long, the heel of the butt catches the armpit of my shirt when I'm bringing it to shoulder. If you are short, like me, you probably want less drop and a shorter LOP. A taller fellow would probably want more.

The Pecatonica River website indicates their Northwest gun stock has a drop at the heel of 2-5/8", and up to a 15½" LOP. I believe if you shorten the LOP, the drop would be correspondingly reduced. Gooding wrote that "The drop of six HBC NW guns made between 1821 and 1870 was between 2 and 2½ inches (page 68). So, the PR Northwest gun stock has a drop that is just a little greater than the average original from HBC. The GRRW-CA webpage indicates the Leman Northwest gun on which they base their reproduction has a drop of 3.10". The Barnett gun they illustrate has a drop of 2.01". This is probably one of the guns the Indians were complaining about, although in fairness, there were a lot of "counterfeit" Barnetts, including some from Belgium. The Belgian guns were generally regarded as inferior.

I think, though, the point is your gun will be a lot more fun to shoot if it is in a gauge you like, is finished to your taste, and most of all if it fits you. Matt Denison told me as much when I ordered mine from him. The GRRW-CA folks appear to give you the option of greater drop and longer LOP but still in an historically correct package. I think that's great.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob


"Should have kept the old ways just as much as I could, and the tradition that guarded us. Should have rode horses. Kept dogs."

from The Antelope Wife
 
Posts: 309 | Location: Florida | Registered: 24 May 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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Bob,
I have owned over a dozen originals in a 50 year period. My father had that many or more, he started collecting antique firearms around 1920. The NW gun as we refer to them now where referred to back east as "squirrel guns'. "barn guns" or "cheap junk guns". I had a hell of a time getting him to call them by their correct name in the 70's. He knew better, just screwing with me, he was an officer at one time in the Ohio Gun Collectors Association.
Anyway Charles E. Hanson Jr was a good friend of several of us in the Estes Park area of Colorado. At a Colorado Collectors Show in Denver I introduced my father to Charley (friends on the spot). The three of us spent many hours, days or a week together talking guns. My father took one of his "cheap junk guns" up to Chadron to show Hanson. Charley about dropped his teeth when dad pulled the gun from its case. It was a Sharpe NW Gun according to Charley 95% NRA fine condition. First thing out of Charley's mouth was "HOW MUCH". We spent three days with the Hanson's and heard that "HOW MUCH" about every other hour. He never got the deal made.
-------------------------------------
Notchy Bob wrote: In response to the original question, no, I don't have any first-hand experience with Pecatonica River Supply, but they do have an excellent reputation.

WE USE THEM AT GRRW.CA - THEY WILL MAKE STOCKS THAT ARE NOT OFFERED BY OTHERS.

Thanks, Buck, for the link to the GRRW Collectors' Association Northwest Gun page. It was interesting. If I understood it correctly, the writer was saying most northwest gun reproductions, as well as a great many originals, had insufficient LOP and drop, but a few makers, including H.E. Leman, built their Northwest guns with a longer LOP and greater drop. The GRRW-CA appears to have chosen a Leman to copy for their Northwest gun.

THAT’S CORRECT BOB.

Interestingly, the complaint is not new. Charles Hanson, quoting the Secretary of the Hudson's Bay Company in 1861, wrote that the "Indians complain of the stocks being clumsy, and finished without taste..." (The Northwest Gun, page 42). In Trade guns of the Hudson's Bay Company 1670-1970, James Gooding noted similar complaints, and discussed "drop" at some length on pages 67 and 68.

NOT A NEW COMPLAINT AS STATED.

If the LOP is too long, recoil feels increased, and if the LOP is much to long, the heel of the butt catches the armpit of my shirt when I'm bringing it to shoulder. If you are short, like me, you probably want less drop and a shorter LOP. A taller fellow would probably want more.

TRUE, IT’S EASIER TO SHORTEN THAN RESTOCK FOR A CUSTOMER.

Gooding wrote that "The drop of six HBC NW guns made between 1821 and 1870 was between 2 and 2½ inches (page 68). So, the PR Northwest gun stock has a drop that is just a little greater than the average original from HBC. The GRRW-CA webpage indicates the Leman Northwest gun on which they base their reproduction has a drop of 3.10". The Barnett gun they illustrate has a drop of 2.01". This is probably one of the guns the Indians were complaining about, although in fairness, there were a lot of "counterfeit" Barnetts, including some from Belgium. The Belgian guns were generally regarded as inferior.

GOOD POINTS BOB, THAT WAS THE WAY WE READ IT ALSO. THE BELGIAN MADE GUNS WERE CHEAP KNOCK-OFFS OF THEIR LONDON COUNTERPARTS. THE BELGIAN GUNS BARRELS AND LOCK PLATES USED THE SITTING FOX IN A CIRCLE (COPIED OTHERS) WITH IN A FEW CASES THE LONDON STAMP. WHILE THE LONDON BUILT GUNS USED THE TOMBSTONE FOX WITH EDWARD BOND INSPECTOR’S MARK ON THE LOCK PLATE AND ON THE BARREL THAT CAUGHT THE NATIVE AMERICAN EYE FOR QUALITY.

I think, though, the point is your gun will be a lot more fun to shoot if it is in a gauge you like, is finished to your taste, and most of all if it fits you….. The GRRW-CA folks appear to give you the option of greater drop and longer LOP but still in an historically correct package. I think that's great.

PLUS WE OFFER THE THINNER BARRELS LIKE THE ORIGINALS IN ANYTHING FROM A .30 GUAGE TO A .72 GUAGE LIKE THE ORIGINALS.

WEIGHT IS AN AREA THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED, IF SHOOTING GAME I HAVE YET TO FEEL RECOIL AND REALLY ENJOY NOT CARRYING AN 8 POUND GUNS WHEN HUNTING ALL DAY.

THANKS BOB FOR YOUR COMMENTS.
 
Posts: 13 | Location: Lehi, Utah | Registered: 09 December 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
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I was in western Nebraska a year ago and the gift shop at Ft. Robinson still had a few copies of Hanson's Northwest Trade Gun- if anyone is interested.
 
Posts: 54 | Registered: 14 November 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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