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Some GRRW Rifles
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Factor
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Ray, Welcome to this Campfire and tell us more about yourself. Some of us are still shootin' the Hawken guns. Shoot sharp, Mike
 
Posts: 3531 | Location: Pacific Northwest | Registered: 25 October 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hivernant
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Meek, Thanks for more info. Can't get enough on GRRW.
 
Posts: 127 | Registered: 10 October 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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Mike,

I've enjoyed reading your Muzzleloader Mag. articles from day one which goes back to 1976 for me. I was a young 22 year old with a thirst for ML gun knowledge, shoot'n, buckskinning and rendezvousing.

Per your request here's a short bit of info on my years muzzleloading...Back in Bicentennial 76, I was fortunate to build a cheap and terrible looking kit rifle and attend my first local BP shoot where I met William C. Young Proprieter of Wahkon Bay Outfitting. William was and still is a Master at building custom ML guns. I was fortunate to procure one of his custom Hawken half-stocks which I used and shot for many years. It won many prizes for me over those early years while WCY, who lives 45 miles away kindly mentored me in the making of authentic ML guns from blanks and quality parts. Now 35 years later we still get together with several others here in Central Minnesota to shoot ML, single cartridge and lever guns as well. Mostly at silhouttes!

I make one or two guns every winter and Hawkens and rifles made by William Golcher who built rifles for a time in St. Paul, MN are my favorites to build these days.

I've enjoyed shooting and hunting Traditional ML guns for all these 35 or so years and finding this Muzzleloader website looks like will keep me busy even more. I've kept all my old ML. MB, and Buckskin report mags all these years and get great pleasure re-reading many of the now old articles. It was a "Shinning Time" for me and I suspect yourself and many others. May they continue...

You keep shoot'n straight too.

Ray
 
Posts: 17 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 29 May 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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Ray, I'll second Mike's welcome as I'm sitting around on a stump by this fire, anyway. You have lots of experience and that's just fine. You're going to be asked for advice and help so don't be surprised.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3560 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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Meek,

I just re-read the whole postings again and many KUDO's for all the well put information on GRRW! It's a history lesson that many can now appreciate Thanks to your documentation in your files.

A great many younger BP enthusiasts today hopefully will learn and relate to your knowledge passion that is "high fashion" timely in my opinion. Too many times...the recent history passes by without being documented so superbly.

Hanshi...Thanks for the welcome as well!

"Keep yer sights Shoot'n Straight"

Ray
 
Posts: 17 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 29 May 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
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Thanks for the kind words, Ray.

My friend and fellow collector, Bob Allen, and I have enjoyed collecting and studying GRRW guns. We thought we'd share some of the information we've gathered. He is periodically publishing a GRRW Gazette. If you're interested in getting on his distribution list, send me an email at plmeek@comcast.net and I'll forward your name and email address on to him.

A few other collectors have sent us some pics of their GRRW rifles.

This one is an early Hawken pattern with a higher serial number with the "H" prefix. Others may come to our attention supporting that 150-200 of this pattern was made.




This next one is another example of what I call a "transition" pattern between the early Hawken and the later "Bridger" pattern. It has Carl Walker's makers mark and a mid-200 serial number. These rifles used GRRW's propriety barrel and Long lock, but it still retains the handmade, two-piece nosecap like the Ron Paull rifle shown earlier. Note that the engraving, case hardening, and patch box are after market modifications.






This last picture isn't very good, but it is of a Hawken fullstock. The breech plug is not a Ron Long plug, but one I've seen on some of the later Hawkens that GRRW built. I would be interested if anyone knows who cast it or marketed it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Meek,


Phil Meek
 
Posts: 78 | Location: Denver | Registered: 19 August 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hivernant
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Meek, Private email sent.
 
Posts: 127 | Registered: 10 October 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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Trying to find a value for a grrw .58 half stock??
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: 03 November 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
Picture of oldarcher
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Hi Alan,
I saw your post on the GRRW Thread concerning the value of a GRRW .58 half stock.
The value depends on a number of factors....I guess the first is how bad you want the rifle, or how bad you want to sell it. You did not state if it was a Leman or Hawken or make any reference to condition. Those are certainly factors that dramatically effect price...Hawkens are generally worth more than Lemans.
There are many folks on these boards that know more about GRRW than I, however I have purchased one Hawken and 6 Lemans over the last 30 years or so, and have built 3 or 4 Hawkens with GRRW barrels.
These factors should be considered:
1. Hawken or Leman
2. Condition
3. Builder (by a GRRW gunsmith or a kit buit by unkown builder)
There are two 1/2 stock GRRW Lemans on Gunbroker now for around 400-750 with no takers, because they were probably kit built guns and not in very good condition. A GRRW Jim Bridger Commerative (?) was sold on Gun Broker for over $2500 and worth every penny. I sold a very nice Hawken for $1300 not too long ago.
If you are offering the gun for sale and it is in good condition the actual sale value should be; Leman $600-800, Hawken $900-1300. This could vary by how nice the wood is, etc. etc.
Good luck!!
 
Posts: 11 | Location: Monroe, GA | Registered: 11 November 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Ray Nels, Somehow I missed seeing your comments that you posted here last May. So, let me thank you now for your kind remarks. Like you, I still have those old magazines too and every now and then I read things in them to take trip back to the old campfires. A lot of snows have covered the grounds since those times... But let's keep looking ahead and maybe we'll share a camp some day. Shoot sharp, Mike
 
Posts: 3531 | Location: Pacific Northwest | Registered: 25 October 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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Mike,

I will look forward to sitting around a campfire...my tipi has weathered many storms and sharing stories would be an honor.

Along with shoot sharp...Stay Sharp!

Ray
 
Posts: 17 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 29 May 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Ray, Bravo!! Shoot sharp, Mike
 
Posts: 3531 | Location: Pacific Northwest | Registered: 25 October 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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Wow guys...great information. Thank you Meek for all you've shared. One of the best threads I've probably read on this forum.


Shoot Safe
 
Posts: 43 | Location: Dallas, Texas | Registered: 15 February 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
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Thanks for the kind words, Bryan.

I've picked up a few more since I started this post. See this link on a GRRW Trappers Pistol.

Trappers Pistol

My friend Bob Allen is a left handed shooter, and he and I had been speculating whether GRRW made any left handed rifles. Since they were a semi-custom shop, it seemed only natural that some customers would request such a rifle. Bob found a LH Leman Trade Rifle first. His rifle is just like their standard Leman Trade Rifle except it has a LH Schillinger lock, and of course, the cheek rest on the right side.

I then came across a LH Leman Kentucky half stock rifle. This one is the most customized GRRW rifle I've seen. It is different than their standard Trade Rifle in that it has a lower entry thimble and different shaped poured pewter nose cap. It also has a slimmer forearm. It's stocked with the fanciest wood I've seen on any GRRW rifle and has a wire inlay on the cheek rest.




The lock is a LH Ron Long Hawken.


The slim and graceful forearm.


The nose cap area from a side view.


The nose cap and entry thimble.


The entry thimble was an option listed in their catalog for the Leman rifle, but this is the only rifle I've seen with one.

Casting marks can be seen in rod channel of the poured pewter nose cap.


The wire inlay weeping heart.


The right lock panel. Another extra option on this rifle is the double set triggers. The photos don't do the wood justice, but you get the idea.


"TR" is engraved on the top flat of the barrel. This rifle was sold to Trappers Rendezvous. The engraving is probably an after market addition.


This rifle is .58 caliber with a 1" x 36" straight octagon barrel. It bears Don McKee's makers mark. The same person that built my Trappers Pistol. The butt plate and trigger guard are the same as they used on their later Leman Trade Rifle and their full stock Leman Indian Rifle.


H. E. Leman's early rifles were typical Lancaster style Kentucky rifles. His trade rifles evolved over time into a unique pattern but they retained much of the Lancaster characteristics. This rifle is very similar to many original half stock Kentucky rifles he made in addition to his more common full stock rifles.

After acquiring the LH Leman, the hunt was on for a LH Hawken. It was only a matter of month's until I found this one at an auction.



It is built on their Bridger pattern with the exception of the cheek rest on the right side and the flat-to-wrist trigger guard. It has a RH Ron Long lock and breech plug. I suspect they used a RH lock and plug because Ron Long hadn't developed a 1-1/8" LH breech plug.


This rifle is .54 caliber, and true to the Bridger pattern, has a 1-1/8" x 33" straight octagon barrel. It was stocked by Gardell Powell.


The tang sight and tacks were installed by the original owner.

GRRW stamp.


Like all Bridger pattern Hawkens I've seen, the lock panels are tapered, being further apart at the front than the back, like many original Hawkens.


Within the course of about a year, Bob and I had found three LH GRRW rifles. I am aware of a possible fourth LH rifle in Alaska. It is represented to be a LH Hawken with RH lock, also. There are probably others out there.

I'll close with a picture of my GRRW Bridger pattern Hawkens. The LH one is on the top. The two in the middle are Bridger Commemoratives, and the one on the bottom is their standard RH model with fancy wood.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Meek,


Phil Meek
 
Posts: 78 | Location: Denver | Registered: 19 August 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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