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Early Tn Poor Boy Characteristics
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Factor
Picture of Hanshi
posted
The subject is an early (1800 to 1820) Tn Poor Boy. So far I've discovered that swamped barrels (to one degree or another) were common as were two lock bolts. What about the tang style and shape? And there's the stock dimensions: wrist dia., drop to comb and to heel. What about butt (with or without butt plate) curvature?

There won't be a patchbox, grease hole or side plate or nose cap on the build. Any students of the early Tn Poor Boy here?


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3559 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Hanshi great minds think alike(LOL). I just opened my copy of the Iowa Rifleshop book to the back page to make some notes and found I had made a rough sketch and a parts list for a rifle such as your inquiry-- Swamped 42" .50,walnut stock,Durrs Egg Lock,two pipes,trigger guard and sights plus sling. My current build is on hold a few days. The fingers on my left hand had a fight with a circular saw yesterday. It's not as bad as it may sound but went to the ER and the mrs. is riding herd on me a few days to make sure I behave. Anyhow I have wanted a plain jane in iron for the woods. If you can get hold of FoxFire #5 House does a chapter building a poor boy that you might find helpful,no buttplate ect.. The House build mentioned without BP has very little curve.Of course some of the southern plates have lots of curve. If you can find it, the book, Notes From a Small Iowa Rifleshop has full size pattens of some Tenn BP and comblines. I don't think Mr. Bookout has any specif info on TN rifles on his web site.


I never have been much for drinking the kool-aid.It's not in my nature.
 
Posts: 336 | Location: Central Pennsyltucky | Registered: 12 January 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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I'll have a butt plate on mine and , as insurance, a toe plate. That's it. Plain as a spinster sister. I want it skinny and cool looking enough to interest Snuffy Smith.

I started off wanting a jaeger or E. Lancaster but had to lower my expectations. Still hankering for a NSW canoe gun at some point. the only thing standing in the way is $$; that's all Eeker. I'll shoot a .32 more, anyway.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3559 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hivernant
Picture of Willis Creek
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I have always loved southern mountain rifles. My first really nice rifle I purchased from Buds Gunshop when it was in Lexington KY. That would have been in 1980. It was built by Tom Hall in Winchester, I believe. Marked 7.79.11. It has a 42" .40 cal Douglas XX barrel, Bud Siler lock, iron furniture. Butt plate and toe plate, no nose cap. Single lock bolt w/ typical Tenn. side plate. Dark stained marbled maple stock - Double set trigger - Dixie I think. Drop at heel 4"; LOP 3.75". Straight tang. Grease hole in stock.


"touch not the cat without a glove"
"Much of the social history of the western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded good. . ." Thomas Sowell
 
Posts: 143 | Location: South of the Arkansas, on the slopes of St. Charles Peak, Colorado territory | Registered: 25 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hivernant
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Well...you'll shoot it once and a while...in between...you'll be swabbing the barrel...Smaller the cal, the bigger the pain to shoot....JMHO.


Keep inside the tree line, Don't let 'em know where yer bedded. Some have less than you do and my be inclined to try and take what little ya have.
 
Posts: 107 | Location: The Soviet Socialist state of Connectitax | Registered: 29 May 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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Im confused by the 2 lock bolts...southern mountain guns seemed to have but 1...they were usually round tailed and percussion locks, but then that would male it post 1820...the powder drum is often quite long, much longer than most commercial drums, and the originals often had a square lug on the end ...the double set triggers are held in by the bow of the trigger guard...the triggerguard itself is secured with wood screws...a long swamped barrel is common...the tang was often a lolli-pop style, sometimes coming well up over the comb. These are some of the attributes usually seen on common southern mountain rifles. not sure about such an early dated "poor boy" as you first mention or if they shared any of these characteristics too...tca
 
Posts: 29 | Registered: 04 May 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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In my research I've come to understand that the early ones did mostly have 2 lock bolts. While one bolt works just fine I'm considering two bolts to be as authentic as possible. The tang is one area I can still use some help. So far I haven't found any reliable data on that.

The small bore fouling problem is a myth, in my experience. I've owned/hunted with/fired a lot a percussion .32 for 12 years or so. It is never any trouble to fire three or four dozen rounds at the range without swabbing. The "trick" in my experience is to use the correct lube (in my case, Hoppes #9BP lube though spit does almost as well) and a good, tight patch. This combo cleans the bore with each reload. Of course it still has to be seated with the thin ramrods. Mine came with one and it still works and remains under the barrel. However, for some time now I've taken to using and unbreakable rod and leave the original wood one for display.

I'll do lots more squirrel hunting than big game and the economics of a small caliber sounds sweet. I've got a .50 flint and a .54 percussion so don't actually "need" (but I do want badly) a flint .54; either an early Lancaster or a jaeger or Christian Springs rifle. The only problem is $$. And this doesn't even count the NSW "canoe gun" kit I'm hoping for.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3559 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Hanshi

My 32 cal Southren rifle had a 42" straight barrel that I was afraid it would be muzzle heavy but it hangs out their very nice I'm anxious to shoot it but with as slim as it is I can't see where a swamp barrel would help that much but that's just MHOP


The best thing about owning a dog is that someone is happy when you get home.
 
Posts: 959 | Location: Alabama | Registered: 09 December 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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Hanshi,

A great gun to build!!!

I've had the pleasure to have an original PoorBoy in my shop years back and made a pattern. It was a 43.5" 40 cal. barrel swamped starting at 15/16" at breech; no buttplate, iron trigger guard similar to the small Bivins available, single forged trigger; flintlock that was Maslin warranted and much like the old CVA; plain maple and fullstock; three ram pipes including entry pipe. Very much hand done wood work in final appearance with wrist dimension worked accordingly with butt width of 1.5"s. Tang was 2.5"s with a little file cut on sides and round taper to end, Tang bolt threaded to a simple trigger plate. One lock bolt with a leather washer. I have made a rifle as such but used double set triggers and it has been a real pleasure for going on 18 years now. Drop was only 2.5's so I modified to my physical stature and used 36" straight 7/8 " barrel and fits me like a dream and has been durable!

Remember guns back then and today should be made according to the individual in need. One remaining pattern today definitely does not fit all individuals. It is okay to make stock drop adjustments to fit you or your customer. The old Masters will smile on you getting the gun done correct to your need. They made necessary alterations in each gun as might be required! Keep it elegant looking in it's simplicity.

Ray
 
Posts: 17 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 29 May 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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Boyd, Ray, barrel choice is down to two Rice barrels: 42" x 3/4" straight - 4.75lbs or the swamped squirrel barrel 42" x 13/16" to 5/8" to 3/4" - 4.25lbs. With either barrel total weight will, of course, not be a problem.

The email I got from Rice Bbls recommended the straight barrel as better for target shooting and the squirrel barrel for a "great handling hunting rifle". Either barrel would easily satisfy my requirements for weight. Hard decision without handling both.

It will have to fit, of course, but I've already got that info down. Thing is, I don't have to worry about making a decision any time soon; haven't even put any $$ away for it so far and wait on the barrel(s) is at least 6 months so I figure minimum of 18 months at best. A very fun thing to study and think about and anticipate.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3559 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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Oh, and if that's not enough I've also previously set my sights on a canoe gun kit.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3559 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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If you have that much time I recommend you get a set of Jerry Nobles books on southern mountain guns and gun makers, as well as a few sets of blueprinted drawings from Ron Borron...he drew
out several blueprints from originals, and they
are still available directly from him...
just some ideas..
tc
 
Posts: 486 | Location: Illinois River Valley | Registered: 02 January 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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T. thanks for the names I have made notes of both and will look 'em up.


I never have been much for drinking the kool-aid.It's not in my nature.
 
Posts: 336 | Location: Central Pennsyltucky | Registered: 12 January 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of Crawdad
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Hansi, not to be argumentative but a swamped barrel on a Tennessee? Historically, has anyone found an original with a swamped barrel? Smiler
 
Posts: 678 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: 30 January 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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Actually, yes, they commonly had swamped barrels until later in the percussion era. Both type barrels can be found among surviving specimens.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3559 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Remember guns back then and today should be made according to the individual in need.


Although that would be the optimal arrangement, it actually that depended on the circumstance. Some could afford to have a rifle built, and some bought them over-the-counter, especially when a rifle builder wasn't locally situated.

LD


It's not what you know, it's what you can prove
 
Posts: 3843 | Location: People's Republic of Maryland | Registered: 10 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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I agree with your post, LD. It only makes sense - in the first place - to have in stock a supply of guns to sell immediately and not wait around for a custom order to come in. This is the way the firearm trade operates today including ML builders.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3559 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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