I have a Pedersoli 50 cal flintlock and was wondering about using paper cartridges for reloading on hunts. is it safe? I have read how to make cartridges but wonder about using them in my rifle.

Wayback, I've thought of doing similar, but decided just having the powder wrapped in paper, and pouring the powder down the bore without the paper was the best all around course to take; patch and ball are carried separately. I use a cloth patch around the ball, which would be a nuisance with the ball&patch inside a paper cartridge. And, if the paper went down the bore during loading, it would come out as a potential brush fire hazard, or could stay as an ember down-bore waiting to set off the next load of powder. Having individual powder charges premeasured and waiting in the pouch doesn't take up much room; coin rollers are pretty handy,sturdy, and reusable.

In the old days, military muskets were loaded with paper cartridges - bite the cartridge end, use a little of the powder to prime, stuff everything down the bore and ram it home. But, those were smoothbore muskets used in battle when safety and accuracy were secondary to speed and volume of fire.

SCL

Wayback,
Welcome to the fire! Tell us about yourself if you care to in the Tall Tales section reserved for stuff like that. There are lots of folks on this list who can answer your question. I'm not expert on paper cartridges, but I'll add my two cents here.

If by 'paper cartridge' you just mean a pre-measured powder charge that you tear and dump down the barrel, there is no safety issue. I wouldn't prime from the paper cartridge (if a flinter) because that means you are still loading on the business end of the rifle with a charge and primed...not safe.

If you have the projectile tied in the paper cartridge and plan to ram the entire cartridge down the bore after the powder has been poured down the barrel, I'm not sure the ball would be tight enough to give good accuracy results. Plus, the cartridge would not be lubricated unless you did some time consuming wizardry after loading the powder--which would likely be so slow as to defeat the purpose of using a paper cartridge.

If you wanted to ram the paper without the roundball down the bore for a cushion wadding before loading the projectile and patch that won't hurt anything, but again would be non lubed and exit the barrel glowing like char.

Paper cartridges were used mainly for smoothbores in combat situations.

For a quick second shot, you may want to carry pre-measured powder charges with patched bullets in a 'bullet block.' Bullet blocks have questionable authenticity, but are used my many people now-a-days.

Sparks

Also,
If you ram the entire powder/paper/projectile (the three Ps?) down the bore without tearing the cartridge, you will probably have ignition issues. You may have to pull the entire package, or use a CO2 discharger to empty the piece.

Hmmmm, I think I just coined a phrase...usual 3 Ps are powder, patch, projectile followed by prime (#4 P)

Sparks

HELLO THE CAMPFIRE HERE'S MY 2C I HAVE USED A PAPER CARTRIDGE LOAD IN MY 62 SMOOTHBORE FOR HUNTING I TEAR THE PAPER LOAD THE POWDER AND RAMMED THE PAPER & BALL THEN PRIMED THE PAN W/4F AT 50 YDS I SHOT A 48 4 RDS IN THE 10 RING AND 1 OUTSIDE IN THE 9 RING (HANG FIRE) I DID THIS TO SEE HOW ACCURITE PAPER WOULD BE FOR HUNTING MY LOAD WAS 70 GRAINS OF 3F PUSHING A .600 BALL I USE THIS COMBINTION NOW FOR DEER HUNTING I DON'T HAVE TO CARRY MY POWDWER HORN AND I CARRY A SMALL BELT BAG FOR THE CARTRIDGES AND TOOLS

Charlie; How many shots did you get before having to swab the bore? What kind of lube do you use?

BUD I RAN A SPIT PATCH AFTER EVERY SHOOT AND I DIDN'T USE ANY LUB I RUN A PATCH EVERYTIME I SHOOT ON THE RANGE OR ON A WOODSWALK OLD HABIT IF I WAS HUNTING AND GOT A SHOT OFF I PROBABLE WOULD RELOAD AND NOT CLEAN THE BORE

IMHO, the effectiveness of paper cartridges in a rifle depend on the depth of rifling and thickness and number of wraps of paper.

The old rife I had really like paper cartridges. My new one doesn't.

IMHO, the only way to see if they work in your gun is to shoot 'em.

The ball can be dipped in a wax type lube, or not. I shot 'em dry, since only one or two shots will be fired, while hunting.

God bless

charlie; We use a .575 RB with the ball part dipped in crisco and get about15 shots before we notice any resistance.

Ka-Hee(hay)-Crow greeting. Everyone thanks for all the info you wrote. I do appreciate it.

Bud i'm shooting a smoothbore never tried it in my rifle if do i would grease the paper this is food for thought maybe i'll make up some for my 50 cal mmmmm keep the powder dry and the blade sharp

As an old hand at paper cartridges, especially when shooting upland birds with a muzzleloader, I can tell you that they work great for a smoothie. I use two types, one for the powder, which is book bond style paper, which is rammed down after the powder is poured into the barrel, to form a wad. The second is newspaper, which is rammed down whole, with the shot charge. Reloading is quick, simple, and fast. Limited out on Pheasants (6) last time I used it on them. (20 ga. 70 gr 3Fg, same volume of #7 shot).

Now for rifles, I would use powder in a newspaper cartridge, tear, pour, and discard (or if your rifle likes a barrier like a bit of wasp nest before you load the patched ball, I'd put a bit of paper down on top of the powder, and compress it with the ramrod.) Then..., I'd use a patched ball from a bullet board. I don't think you get enough surface area on the ball and the lands/grooves for a round ball and paper for most folks.

The KEY is to make your own cartridge form..., a wooden dowel that you do a test wrap of paper, and see if this will slip into the bore of your gun or rifle..., if it don't..., then you have some sanding to do to the dowel to get it small enough. I like a .590 ball in my 20 gauge, and 2 full wraps of bond paper.

LD

LD i have used a lubed felt wool wad over powder in both my smoothis and my rifle with good results i guess it what your gun likes best keep the powder dry and the blade sharp

Ka-Hee Ok, hears what I do know about paper. soaking paper in saltpeter makes it more ignitable. use dow rod to roll paper, using tracing paper. Useing beeswax and crisco for ball lube and to seal cartridge . again thanks to all.

Why would you want paper more ignitable? Unless you are using a Sharps caplock breechloader, we don't want the paper to burn, but smolder and go out. As a wad, you very much don't want it to ignite. As a quasi-shotcup, the same.

LD

Dave, if a person wanted to just stuff the whole thing down the barrle

Wow well first I'd use flash paper, for that, I wouldn't make my own, for if you don't get the quantity of salt peter right, you'd get a delayed reaction..., unless you pricked the cartridge through the touch hole and didn't have a patent breech.

LD

Here is a link to a discussion about paper cartridges in rifles, with lots of good information, on another forum. If linking to another forum is not allowed, feel free to delete this post.

http://muzzleloadermag.infopop...20610091/m/133103142

Here is an article on making and shooting tapered paper cartridges for rifles.
Scroll down to the second posting.

http://underhammers.blogspot.com/

and one here
http://webpages.charter.net/fa...k/web/PaperPatch.htm

God bless

This message has been edited. Last edited by: J.D.,

Not the paper cartridge but same idea.
I use those new plastic loaders for the inlines. Thompson center makes some nice ones. Cost me seven bucks for three of them.
Load the patched round ball in one end. Fill the other end with measured powder.
To load, just pour powder out, and turn over the patched ball can be driven out with a short starter, just drive it right out into the barrel, and seat.

The TC ones even come with a place to store caps, and priming powder. Somethign useful to come from those inlines anyway.

BRILLIANT JD!

That's very very interesting, especially the images of the paper after it has served as a patch.

You see, there has been a mystery of sorts regarding Jaegers. Did they use a patched ball apart from their cartridges, for they did use cartridges, or did they somehow load a patched ball into the cartridge? NOW it seems it might have been possible for them to use PAPER as the patch. Further, the later British Baker rifle had a very slow twist 1:120, and they may have used paper too. So..., I wonder if I can find out the average depth of rifling in original Jaeger rifles surviving from the 18th century?

I must try paper patched rounds myself!.

LD