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Bag strap buckles.
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Hivernant
posted
I just finished a bag for a customer and he wanted a buckle on the strap. When i asked him why,he stated that it was neccasary for his winter clothes. Needed to adjust for all the clothing he will wear. Not sure about others,but I've never had to put on that many clothes that my bag didn't fit. You'd probably need to look like the kid fron "A Christmas Story" to need to adjust your bag.

Well,I've had this disscussion with Ken Scott and MY feeling is that the buckles were on the strap for a couple of different reasons.

#1,Horse travel. We all seem to forget just how common traveling by horse was "back in the day". The difference in where the bag sit's between walking and riding is significant.

#2, Different sizes in peopleand personalpreferance. Some like a high tight bag,others like it a little lower,not "gunslinger" low,but not up in yer pit's either. Sometimes bag's were made and stocked by the traders in town's. Bag's were lost stolen worn out,ect.....

#3 Back then the youngsters were sent out hunting at a much younger age than we do today. They normaly didnt get their own gun till they were older,so they used an adult's gun with the bag that goes with that gun. Kid's are normally smaller than the adult's.

#4,Harness makers were more likely to put on a buckle than a cobbler would. All the tack they made needed to be adjustable,not all horses were the same size.

Just a couple of rambling thought's by a guy with A LOT of time on his hand's!
 
Posts: 137 | Location: Former Yooper,Now in the GLORIOUS PICTURESQUE THUMB OF MICHIGAN | Registered: 02 November 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
Picture of Spotted Bull
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I always put a buckle on my bag straps too. They look cool (in my opinion) and folks like them. Never really thought of any historical significance before.


It is pitiful when a man lets his ego push his intelligence beyond his ignorance.
 
Posts: 55 | Location: Waxahachie, TX | Registered: 20 December 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Graybeard
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Some early bags used a button on the bag to attach one side of the strap to the bag. Several buttonholes in the strap made it adjustable...
 
Posts: 238 | Registered: 08 August 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
Picture of Spotted Bull
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yep I have used that one too. I have also put the buttons on the short side of the strap and the button holes on the long side.

But after looking at Madison Grant's book and at Jim Webb's book, I don't see many straps that were attached with O-rings or D-rings. Anybody else notice that?


It is pitiful when a man lets his ego push his intelligence beyond his ignorance.
 
Posts: 55 | Location: Waxahachie, TX | Registered: 20 December 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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I did...consequently there are no D rings or O rings on my bags...

Sparks


"I thought when you said you chased tornadoes, it was just a metaphor."
--soon to be ex-fiance in Twister
 
Posts: 247 | Location: Boise | Registered: 12 November 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Graybeard
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Never have used rings....

That said, I like them and think they can improve how the bag hangs. Done right, they look pretty nice...

I think there are examples of use in the Southern Appalachia region. Jim Webb's book might show examples...

If your talking 18th century, they are doubtful. Early 19t century and a few examples are found, later on they show up more frequently.
 
Posts: 238 | Registered: 08 August 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hivernant
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Ring's again are more than likley used by harness makers due to them being used to using them when leather makes a "turn". They were experts at stress relief in leather.

I employ all form of construction when making my bag's. I LOVE making 'em,so I dont limit my self in any aspect of work.

I tried the "button" method of strap adjustment before. I think it would only be practicle in a VERY lightweight bag,say a Southern .32 who carris very little in the pouch. Just my opinion,not very humble though!
 
Posts: 137 | Location: Former Yooper,Now in the GLORIOUS PICTURESQUE THUMB OF MICHIGAN | Registered: 02 November 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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Only one of my bags has a buckle and I put it on the strap because I'm short and the bag was sized for normal height. Still, there is a difference in where the bag hangs on a hunting coat and a t-shirt. Fortunately I like it to ride higher in the deer woods than the summer plinking walks.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3559 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of Deercop
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I put buckles on my straps. Usually designed to be in back.
When I'm on horseback, I like to have the bag where my elbow can keep the bag (and contents!) in place. On foot, just below my elbow.
 
Posts: 649 | Location: Clovis, New Mexico | Registered: 21 March 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Lads - The matter of buckles for adjustment on bags is one that goes around camp a lot. If we look at the primary published refs (Grant is perhaps best) and at those in museum collections, we see them on a large proportion of the 18th cent bags.

Personally, and this is just my approach, I want to try to have each and every accoutrement I carry and use to be as accurate to the 1760-90 time period as is possible - so, no rings. Those seem to be an introduction of the "modern old tyme" approach...not based on any historic examples.

Sure, this is perhaps a "purist's" approach, but so be it. You can wear running shoes with your britches and stockins' if you wish, but to me that looks silly. I see FAR too many "reenactors" with those silly "hi-low" boots that may actually have been worn by only four people in the time, but "are better than moccasins"...perhaps, but to me they simply "look silly"...

So, perhaps it is best to ask "does this or that fit within my chosen period of inspiration?"...if it does, go with it, if not leave it out!

Just sayin'

Col Boone
 
Posts: 728 | Location: Volcano, Hawaii | Registered: 22 September 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hivernant
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I have often wondered why we have so few Rev war era bags left,and the answers go on and on and on....

I agree that up to the very late 1700's,ring's were VERY VERY rare,and I still maintain my position on buckles,some had them,lot's didn't,but my main point was the REASON for them,not did or didnt they have them. That is a differnt point that I'm not an expert in.

Being a leatherworker who get's paid for a product,I will do all I can to steer a customer to the historicly correct item for what he is doing,other than that,if he want a purple strap on an orange bag,I'll do it,I'll sign someone elses name(lol,not really),but I'd do it.

I too use Madison Grant's book's as a referance,along with Jim Webb's book. I'm finding that I'm making more and more bag's that are a little later in the time line,1830-1860. I know we are used to using 1840 as the "cut off'date for Buckskinning,but I myself am leaning to the later style gun's I'm building now. Who know's where we'll be next year!
 
Posts: 137 | Location: Former Yooper,Now in the GLORIOUS PICTURESQUE THUMB OF MICHIGAN | Registered: 02 November 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Graybeard
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Boone,

Most all the bags in Madison Grants book are from the 19th century. Great bags, but to late for the early through middle 1790's. Jim Webb's book that Pathfinder mentioned is another good one, but is more Appalachian. Dates are sketchy.

These days it seems the question of ones station in life comes into play and geographic area.

Give you an example. I have a French fusil made to represent a 1740's Chiefs gun, not quite a Fin. I live in a area that is just 25 miles from what was Noveau France, so the gun is correct to my place and time. I am trying to find a correct bag to build for the gun. Tough cookie, that one. For now, it is going to be a very simple small bag, 7" x 9" that has no buckle on the strap. The strap is narrow harness leather. The bag is without a welt with a divider, so not reversed stitched. Thread is course, leather is cow. One button on a very short flap. The front, back, and flap are one piece of leather. There is a tie off sewn in to the back of the bag with a thong to tie to my sash.

I have the original bag in my collection that I have attempted to build as described above, 3 times. Each time I had to make changes to the pattern to get it closer. Getting the right weight leather for it has been the last step, it is measuring 2.5 oz.

Here is the thing, after all the research and work... My bag will look out of place at most events that I go to... As most of those folks will be carrying more "modern" bags.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Pease,
 
Posts: 238 | Registered: 08 August 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hivernant
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I wouldn't worry about'looking out of place". if your research took you to the bag that fit's what your doing,so be it. Would most guy's even notice that your bag is 50 years out of time? At least where I shoot,folk's are more interested in you being there than how your kit goes together.

We may get into discussions as to how our gear fit's and do some bragging,but no one EVER say's bad thing's about your kit.

I'm sure that if you put a ring or 2 on your 1750 french bag,no one would really care one way or another.

But I also agree it's up to us who craft these thing's to be true to history and know what was done and when.

Jim's book is a good referance when you want truley home made item's. Sure,we can't date for certain when thing's were made,after 150 years,the patina all seem's to look the same.

I think ALL this stuff is cool!
 
Posts: 137 | Location: Former Yooper,Now in the GLORIOUS PICTURESQUE THUMB OF MICHIGAN | Registered: 02 November 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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I've got bags with buckles on the back and some I put laces on the back, prefer a buckle on the back,for reasons mentioned before to hang up higher on horseback or canoe.But if I'm on horseback my sash is usually wrapped around it to make sure I don't loose it's contents.
 
Posts: 10 | Location: edwards,mo | Registered: 14 May 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Graybeard
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I will say this,...

Its nice to have a forum where a few of us bagbuilders can get together and compare notes. Smiler
 
Posts: 238 | Registered: 08 August 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
Picture of Spotted Bull
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quote:
Originally posted by Pease:
I will say this,...

Its nice to have a forum where a few of us bagbuilders can get together and compare notes. Smiler


Yup...I like it!


It is pitiful when a man lets his ego push his intelligence beyond his ignorance.
 
Posts: 55 | Location: Waxahachie, TX | Registered: 20 December 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of Deercop
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My daughter, who is up in Alaska, gave me wolverine, lynx, and river otter faces for Christmas!
Should make for some very nice bag flaps.
 
Posts: 649 | Location: Clovis, New Mexico | Registered: 21 March 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hivernant
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You'll have to post some pic's deercop when ya get them done!
 
Posts: 137 | Location: Former Yooper,Now in the GLORIOUS PICTURESQUE THUMB OF MICHIGAN | Registered: 02 November 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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I have built probably 50-60 bags over the last five or six years, but I have been involved in this great endeavor of reenacting since 1980. Half the bags I have put together over that time have buckles and half do not.

In my research I have found the same things others have, that earlier bags and homespun bags tend not to have buckles. Factory or harness maker made bags do. That will also speak to the level of skill in the stitching and finishing.

On the homespun bags the sky seems to be the limit. Whatever they had laying around was what they used. I have seen buttons of all sorts, leather stops, leather stitched to be buckles, and so on...

What I have not seen a lot of, is rings. However, I have seen and have used wire square shapes as rings, and attachments on the straps for accoutrements.Attaching powder measures and other stuff is probably a whole other discussion.

Lately, if I do use a buckle, I tend to keep it in the front for ease of adjustment. You can then also use it for attaching accoutrements.

Hope this helps.
 
Posts: 22 | Location: NW Georgia | Registered: 13 November 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
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I have bags with buckles (always on back) and bags with no buckles. I am told that the majority of original bags didn't have a buckle. On the O or D ring- same thing. To my knowledge not pc or very rare.
 
Posts: 54 | Registered: 14 November 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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