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Greenhorn
posted
Hi team...

Question...

1750s - 1780s... we're tie outs normal on canvas oilcloth shelters? French and Indian war period...longhunter....Rev War.

I usually create tie off points using hemp rope and a glass marble or large lead musket balls.

If I sewed hemp webbing, would that be period correct?
 
Posts: 12 | Location: Delphi, Indiana | Registered: 17 October 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Wish I could help, but I simply do not know.


Know what you believe in. Fight for your beliefs. Never compromise away your rights.
 
Posts: 897 | Location: Cherokee Land, Tenasi | Registered: 06 January 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of Notchy Bob
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No idea, hoss.

Do we know for sure that longhunters even used them, back in the day?

Best regards,

Notchy Bob


"Should have kept the old ways just as much as I could, and the tradition that guarded us. Should have rode horses. Kept dogs."

from The Antelope Wife
 
Posts: 313 | Location: Florida | Registered: 24 May 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Well, as far as we know, and this is based on what we see in the surviving equipment lists, and what was sold by traders who employed hunters who were away from the trading post for weeks or months, coupled with accounts of shelters being built without oil cloth...,

Oil Cloth would have been a very rare item used as shelter material. Even more rare than civilians using tents. Eeker

So why do we use it? Confused

We know it did exist, and was used to cover parcels to provide water resistance when being transported overland or in canoe, and on sailing ships. It was also used to make decorative floor coverings.

So they must have used it for shelters, since they used it so many other ways? right? Wink

Well that's one of the puzzles, and oil cloth isn't the only thing they could've used for X purpose, but apparently didn't.


Colonel Henry Bouquet, the Swiss officer in the British Army that lead the campaign to put down Pontiac's Rebellion, advocated the making of "surtouts" from soldier's shirts, one per soldier, as a sort of raingear to protect the soldier and his pack. It's also thought that this idea of the surtout when painted with a bright yellow paint, was the very first version of the fisherman's "mack". Bouquet has an extensive set of papers, and although he advocated the fashioning of raingear (which appears to have been ignored) he never mentions nor advocates the use of oil cloth for lightweight shelter for his men.

Likewise you don't find it being made or being mentioned as a shelter material at George Morgan's store in Kaskaskia, nor on long hunts. BUT you do find at least one tent going along on one of the long hunt expeditions (iirc)


So..., oil cloth for a shelter is a compromise. It could have been used for such in the 18th century. We live in an era where the wilderness has shrunk, and the population is very large, and construction of brush shelters by trekkers or in large amounts by folks at rondys, market fairs, frolics, and such would have a heavy impact. We also in this century have limited time to trek or attend other events, and being wet and miserable (while very authentic) is not on a lot of people's minds as a good way to spend a weekend.

So we compromise a bit. If you want ties, use them. If you want to use some sort of grommet, like leather, you can, and you can use both if you like. Big Grin

LD


It's not what you know, it's what you can prove
 
Posts: 3662 | Location: People's Republic of Maryland | Registered: 10 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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As we used to say in the SCA,"typhoid fever was period too,but we choose not to reenact that aspect".


Beer is proof that God loves us,and wants us to be happy-B. Franklin
 
Posts: 1487 | Location: Oreegun Territory | Registered: 24 March 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Yeah, one of the sayings we use in my group in Military Reenacting is:

" If you're not having fun..., you're probably doing something wrong. "

LD


It's not what you know, it's what you can prove
 
Posts: 3662 | Location: People's Republic of Maryland | Registered: 10 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of Notchy Bob
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I hope my initial response did not come across as a challenge. I have not researched that type of shelter in that time period and place. The information provided in this thread is informative and interesting.

I like to make and use authentic gear, I enjoy traditional blackpowder shooting, and I also enjoy learning about history. These interests often lead me to reenactors' forums and websites. However, I am not a reenactor.

The reenactor lifestyle is fascinating, and could itself be the subject of a sociological study. Maybe it's already been done... I don't know. The lengths that some people will go to verify or "document" the authenticity of some item or practice is testament to their self discipline and dedication, yet, as pointed out above, some concessions inevitably have to be made.

I read abut a group of reenactors, I believe in California, who were interested in the Napoleonic War. They insisted on very strict authenticity, and assembled absolutely period correct uniforms, equipment, and weaponry, with no tolerance for anything less. They met for a reenactment, but discovered it was pretty hard to recreate the drama of a Napoleonic bayonet charge with only three individuals.

One other point I think a lot of people miss is that transportation on land in the 18th and 19th centuries moved by horsepower. Ruxton indicated that the worst thing that could happen to a mountain man was to find himself "afoot." Even Boone used packhorses, and in his autobiography David Crockett reported trading his rifle for a saddle horse. Not just "a" rifle, but the only one he had. However, it's just not feasible for most reenactors to get horses to round out their personae. Horsemanship can be an all-consuming hobby in itself. The absence of horses would be one of those concessions many people have to make.

I agree, the only reason to be involved in any of this, whether we are shooting, making gear, studying history, or reenacting, is for fun, and we need to keep it safe. I get the fact that we don't need to reenact typhoid, cholera, dysentery, starvation, filth, or public drunkenness at the rendezvous. Otherwise, I guess it must be up to event organizers to specify what's acceptable and what isn't.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob


"Should have kept the old ways just as much as I could, and the tradition that guarded us. Should have rode horses. Kept dogs."

from The Antelope Wife
 
Posts: 313 | Location: Florida | Registered: 24 May 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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My comment was made with a smile....It's all good.


Beer is proof that God loves us,and wants us to be happy-B. Franklin
 
Posts: 1487 | Location: Oreegun Territory | Registered: 24 March 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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