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Booshway
Picture of Iche Iia
posted
It looks like every time I come here anymore I have questions and not able to give anyone any good answers to theirs. But here I am again with another one.

I just recently joined the AMM and so far, without a single doubt, it is what I am looking for. No nonsense, do it right, and make it as real as we know how to. YES, I am becoming a “stitch counter” to a point where I am even thinking about taking the label and end stitching off of my Hutson’s Bay blankets because they were not there in the “period”….. But **** I’m loving it.

So, here is my question; I cannot find any documentation on a “boot knife”. I have tried to study every A. J. Miller sketch and painting that I can find. I have even “googled” it. I see no account of it in the 1800 – 1840 time period. I call myself a knife maker but I am just more of a metal remover so, to get rid of my constant companion on my leg is killing me but if it ain’t right……….toss it.

As I have always stated, this is where I go to when I can’t find the answer.


Iche Iia

"Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you."
 
Posts: 379 | Location: Prince George, Virginia | Registered: 04 April 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of MountainRanger
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Well, it sure seems like you have done all the research possible to find the answer,and it seems like the answer doesn't exist at least in easy form. Two suggestions:

What do the folks in the AMM say? Do what they advise. From what I've heard about this organization, they are as you said for yourself... they try to do it as the mountain men of that period did. It seems that like the frontiersmen of the eastern 1750s, they carried what they needed and put the things wherever they could on their belts, bags, leggings or wherever. I suspect the mountain men did the same.

Next I would offer to you that assuming the mountain men actually wore boots, SOMEONE stuck one of his knives down the boot and thought it was a capital idea. DO the same.


Sua Sponte
 
Posts: 460 | Location: SW Virginia (New River Valley) | Registered: 13 August 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of Iche Iia
posted Hide Post
I use the term "boot knife" to make a point. I don't wear boots I wear Mocs but I strapped a knife and sheath to my leg. (I thought it was cool).

As far as going to the AMM. I will do that if I can't get an answer on my own first. Thank you for your reply.


Iche Iia

"Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you."
 
Posts: 379 | Location: Prince George, Virginia | Registered: 04 April 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Graybeard
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Never seen or read any real evidence on boot knives but like them myself. Have worn one in camp and on the trail both for years.very handy n doesn't flop around like a neck knife set up. IMHO I think its a more modern idea for the hollyweird n cool factor
 
Posts: 229 | Location: Southeast Pa. | Registered: 03 February 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of MountainRanger
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ok, now I understand what you're talking about. I carry a nice long knife on my belt, one that has about a 10" blade and represents what a knife might look like having been reforged and finished from a broken sword, and a smaller one stuck on the outside of the garter at my right knee. That one has about a 6 1/2" blade with a bone handle and is one I occasionally throw. Easy to access.


Sua Sponte
 
Posts: 460 | Location: SW Virginia (New River Valley) | Registered: 13 August 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Well you strap a knife to your lower leg when you SCUBA, not for the wilds. Big Grin

The reason you may not be finding them in frontier, mountain man references, is that it's a weapon of a table-gambler, to be accessed when one is sitting at the table, playing cards...the top of one's boot is within reach of the hand. Not a bad place for a derringer, or "box-lock, muff pistol", or the so called "New Orleans Ace" caplock pistol.

IF you're NOT in a place where hard sided, high topped boots are worn, AND there are chairs in which to be seated, coupled with customs that might prohibit open carry of a belt knife....there would be no reason for such a carry method. Hence, you don't find them. Double edged knives yes....top of the boot, no.

Consider the Highland sgian dbuh. It is worn in the top of the hose accessible for the dominant hand. It is worn there today on a regular basis, BUT in antiquity, it was only placed there, visible to others in one's company, to show good will. Normally, since Highland hospitality required one to grant overnight hospitality even to an enemy, it was concealed about one's person, and might or might not be placed in the top of the hose if one obtained hospitality from a not so friendly "house".


LD


It's not what you know, it's what you can prove
 
Posts: 3843 | Location: People's Republic of Maryland | Registered: 10 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Graybeard
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I often wonder how much our modern ideas affect our choices in knives. Jedidiah Smith carried a blade that had been broken for years but was still useable. Types of steel, edge holding qualities etc I wonder if all that is a more modern mind set. Back when those on the edges of civilization of course wanted the best they could afford but custom fancy was for the affluent. Touching up the edges IMHO would have been a regular daily maybe multiple times a day experience.
 
Posts: 229 | Location: Southeast Pa. | Registered: 03 February 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Y'know,I used to consider myself a fairly well educated Layman.Since frequenting this,and other forums,however,I'm learning just how little I know.LD,that little gem regarding the sgian dubh(sp?) is something that makes perfect sense,but I never suspected.....


Beer is proof that God loves us,and wants us to be happy-B. Franklin
 
Posts: 2014 | Location: Oreegun Territory | Registered: 24 March 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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I only learned that about five years ago. My late friend Bruce MacNeal was a member of the Saint Andrews Society, and taught me about that.

As far as steel on the frontier goes folks, you're talking the most common was something like a 1085 or 1095 carbon steel. Inventories of traders and trading posts from the post F&I period through the MM era show a lot of butcher knives and skinning knives.

Now also consider the famous Bowie Knife? Mr. Bowie used a knife (iirc) designed by his brother. He used it in a fight following a duel, after an ongoing dispute ..., in town. Not a "frontier" weapon, but it was later taken out into frontier areas, and the largest maker of "Bowie" knives during Mr. Bowie's life, was in.....England. Eeker

LD


It's not what you know, it's what you can prove
 
Posts: 3843 | Location: People's Republic of Maryland | Registered: 10 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Of course..... Big Grin


Beer is proof that God loves us,and wants us to be happy-B. Franklin
 
Posts: 2014 | Location: Oreegun Territory | Registered: 24 March 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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remember, the mountain man wuz mainly a horseman--and a horseman hasta be able to control things if he comes offa his horse. hard sheaths probably kept some of 'em from stickin' him; some kinda retainer wuz common (can't remember who mentioned that, but it's in th' literature) so it didn't come loose of his belt, and anything that worked on horseback wuz probably tried. but he wuz also a wader--so anything below knee level woulda hadta been shifted when he wuz trappin'. just some considerations...
mind yer topknots!
windy
 
Posts: 487 | Location: wetside o' washington | Registered: 14 October 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of Iche Iia
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Good point about being in the water.


Iche Iia

"Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you."
 
Posts: 379 | Location: Prince George, Virginia | Registered: 04 April 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of GreyWolf
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I don't have them handy but their are period refernces to voyageurs and others wearing more than one knife, including knives carried on the leg. Might ask over on the Frontierfolk forum as I'm sure this subject has been discussed over there.


aka Chuck Burrows
 
Posts: 616 | Location: Southern Rockies | Registered: 03 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of Iche Iia
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Thanks Chuck


Iche Iia

"Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you."
 
Posts: 379 | Location: Prince George, Virginia | Registered: 04 April 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hivernant
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Iche:

I'd have to agree it is most likely kind of Hollywood however, I will say I have several buddies that like to wear them when they ride.

They feel a small knife worn along the leg in the knee area could be handy and if they came out of their saddle and their leg or foot became entangled in the saddle rigging. The idea being the leg knife may be easier to access than a belt knife to cut away what has tangled you.

I can't say I personally do this when I ride, but the idea comes from some folks that have many many many miles of period riding under their butts.

Rio
 
Posts: 140 | Registered: 18 March 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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