Not sure if this is the right category so feel free if it needs moving.
As an aspiring leather bag maker I think I have a pretty good idea what constitutes 'traditional vs. contemporary'. I have this 'seal' hide that was given to me by my sister in law (Alaskan native) and made a nice hunting bag for my brother and I made another, slightly different. The bags I designed and made the should be considered traditional, but the use of the seal hide (hair on) for the flap (beaver flap style) would be considered contemporary. Or is it? Probably because the hide came from too far north and wouldn't have been seen by white mountainmen? Would seal hides been used for trade between northern and southern natives? If they were anything like the continental tribes I'm sure trade between them was taking place.
Any thoughts?
Gary

Where is your personal supposed to be? And where is he from? How many folks will recognize it as seal anyway?

All along the Pacific coast, sure you could have seal. Then you have sailors as very young men who could've whaled in the Pacific, traded for a seal hide, and then returned to the East Coast with a good bit of cash, the hide, and a desire not to go back to sea ever again. So off to the frontier goes your character, and voila, he needs a shooting bag.

(It's not white is it? That wouldn't be safe in the woods then or now!)

LD

I remember reading about seal hide uses in the New England/Maine/Canadian east coastal areas by Indians and I don't see why whites could not have had such stuff.

Mike, I forgotten all about the eastern side the country as I recall reading something about it at one time. I was tending to think only regarding the pacific northwest assuming that would have been the only place where the hides might be available, either by direct acquisition or via trade with the natives. Especially by trade as sealskin was used quite a bit by the natives.
LD, as far as would anyone recognize the hide as seal? Don't know. Certainly the individual using the hide in some purpose whether hunter or fur trapper should know. Would a 'pilgrim' know? Probably not, until told.
I guess by today's standards what we have come to accept as 'traditional' may be biased based upon where we grew and learned what was available and how they were used in that part of the country, and even, culturally. Now people in the early to mid 19th century accustomed to the pacific northwest might have different views. Interesting.
Gary

Seal skin should be cool, however I think that it's not only the type of leather, but also the tanning process, construction technique and materials used,and to some extent the general style that would also help define a bag as traditional or authenticly styled...while anything we make today is pretty much by strict defination contemporary, even if based directly on an original etc...
TCA

Traditionally, seal and walrus hide as used by natives in the N Pacific area are tanned, if it can be called that, using methods that allow them to deteriorate quickly in warm areas. I'd be very reluctant to have anything made of sealskin which was to be used in temperate or moist situations. Remember that below freezing, air is every bit as dry as in a desert.

Knowing the tanning method is very important. Unless, of course, you have no sense of smell.

Three Hawks

In all of the Pacific Northwest museums that I have viewed, which are quite a few, most of the seal skin used was in different catagories. It was used in clothing as ornamental trimmings, such as hoods, around the ends of sleeves, etc. sometimes used in clothing all together. Other uses was in the ceremonial uses such as in pipe bags, medicine bags etc. Most of the seal skin uses were Washington State on north to Canada. Some skin usage could be traded on south through Oregon and Calif.
In Fort Astor located in Astoria, Oregon (The first fur trapper fort established in Oregon by John Astor) there is a complete seal skin parka on view at the fort and is claimed to have been used during the early fur trade.
I personaly believe the fur usage may have been used quite steadly and traded whole hardly.

Talltree
Keep your tail high and dry.

The seal fur itself isnt as much of an issue as how the bag is made...I think europeans have made use of the fur/leather for a long time...
http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/fa.../infohut/sealing.htm
TCA

HE HE

NO I meant would anybody where you are know the flap was seal skin when they saw the bag, now, not back then. I mean sure you might be in an area or your living history persona might be in such a time and place where the skin was near to impossible to have laid hands on, BUT you DO have a skin today, AND who would know it was out of place unless you told them? I couldn't tell the diff between seal, otter, or beaver. So use it.

LD

Seal skin pouch flap is contemporary because it comes from too far north. WHY????? NO????

Don't you think some Russian just might have used such a bag if he got some Aleut to make it?

The Russian American Co. received their Charter from the Tzar in 1799 and Vitus Bearing found Alaska long before that. They didn't leave till 1867. SO why do you think a seal skin pouch should be contemporary? It would fit my persona to a "T" as traditional. That pouch would be to die for.

I understand most people wouldn't appreciate such a pouch but this child, born and raised in Wrangell, Alaksa; knows the history of the area. The town of Wrangell had its meager beginning when the Russians built Redoubt (fort) Saint Dionysius at that location in 1835. They also built fort Ross located in California in 1811. Keep in mind that the rendezvous' took place between 1825 and 1840. With that said, what is there about those dates that would make one think a seal skin pouch wouldn't be traditional?????

Load fast and aim slow.

White finger, like this?

ME LIKE!!!!!!!!!!!

Talltree,

Keep your tail high and dry.

Oh DROOL. YES Yes yes. That is beautifull.

Load fast and aim slow.

and drool some more.

Completely inappropriate.
Send to me and I'll protect your reputation.
Actually, very fine.

Well gents thanks. Although the bag you see above was made for my brothers birthday as his wife gave me the skin a number of years ago. She's a native from Alaska and the hide is better looking in person. However, I had made one very similar to this one and attached to it a very nice powder horn made from bison. In a move to make the horn more complimentary to the colors of the bag I had used osage orange for the base plug, and foolishly, used the same for the tip instead of antler. I dunno, maybe it is the horn that is too contemporary. It certainly wouldn't be to find an original horn with replaced wood applied tips. Hmmm, maybe that would make another good thread for discussion and to learn more.
Keep yer powder dry.

Gary

beautiful bag...


Heard tell of using seal skin on yer arrow rests of long bows too...