Hello the Forum, It's Columbus Day...,

And it is held he actually sighted land on October 12, 1492. So this year the actual observance falls on the actual anniversary, except for a bit of calendar resetting done in the 18th century. Well close enough.

It was the 1828 biography that created the popular myth that the people of the time thought the earth was flat. In fact they knew it was round, even his sailors. Several mathematical errors, Chris used the Italian mile while previous calculations for the circumference of the Earth used the Arabic mile (an error of about 600 meters per mile). An inaccurate previous writer, Alfraganus, held a a little more than 56 miles between degrees on longitude, and Marinus of Tyre incorrectly placed the landmass of Asia at 225 degrees..., which meant the Atlantic Ocean to Asia was only about 135 degrees wide or..., 7641 miles to cross.

The mutiny or near mutiny was due to the sailors not wishing to die of starvation, thirst, and/or scurvy, NOT falling off the world.

So one of the luckiest screwups in history is remembered today. His discovery lead to the introduction of the potato, sweet potato, maize, squash, tobacco, and red peppers (he was going after black pepper btw) into European diets (and I think also tomatoes..., eventually).

LD

Wasn't Leif Erickson day last week?
I suppose they hold that before Columbus day
on purpose too?
TCA

LD,
Thanks for a cogent reminder that history is often more interesting than the myths we create about it.
My church denomination, maybe like others, recognizes "Columbus Day" as "Indigenous Peoples' Day" in recognition of the fact that Columbus and his sailors only "discovered" what they didn't know. And then there was the enslavement of the Caribs and other natives...

Dick

Brendan the navigator reached America 500 years before Leif.

The only reason the Norseman get the credit they do is because they settled the land and the settlements in both Canada and Greenland have been found.

Brendan sailed in a leather boat called a currach and did not stay long enough to leave any trace. Probably long enough to repair the boat, set in stores, and for the change in season for the voyage back to Ireland.

Load fast and aim slow.

Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school.
Albert Einstein

AH, BUT..., History is owned by those with the best publicist. So.., Columbus DID discover North America, for neither Brendan nor the Norsemen bothered to tell the Western World well enough to prevent Chris from doing some very bad math, and running into the place. Had they had a good PR guy, Chris would've known there was a chunk of land blocking his route. The fool was lucky they all didn't die a nasty death.

LD

Well, lets throw a bunch of thoughts into this...

Way back when, like ALMOST the last Ice Age... The pre present day Indians came here, from
Asia. It has been suggested that DURING the last Ice Age, when the Atlantic Ocean was frozen south of Iceland and Greenland. Europeans, had come here via the ice shelf... It is suggested this is the road of the colvis point. The arrow heads from the Indians from Asia are not clovis... The pre-Spain arrowheads show the beginning steps of Clovis...

The two groups met somewhere in the middle... It was a Tuesday, 3 PM at Third and Main St. Saint Louis. Sorry, got carried away there.

Planet warns, Ice melts, Oceans return, long swim. Thousands of years pass... More years pass... Julius Caesar went to Gaul [France today ] because captured Phoenicians had said that they got their pelts from Gaul [when tortured ]. When Julius got there, no pelts... Torture does not work. More time passes... in the 1950-90's, some Phoenician ruins were found in the East coast. Duh!!! "Pelts from GAUL!!"

So, who really got here first??? Who were the First Europeans?? Were the early Europeans here before the Asian Indians??? How many thousands of years ago??? Did the both get here at about the same time... What about the Asians who may have been here from before the last ice age, like 30,000 years ago???

Also, I am so glad that Balboa got the the Pacific Ocean first.... Why those unknowing Indians did not know they had a huge Salt Water area just west of the beach that had no name... When they looked west, they saw nothing at all, no water, salt or otherwise.

One must admire the arrogance of the white man...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tin-Type,

Okay...the topic is a good one and is not erupting into anything heated as it may well elsewhere on line...thats a compliment to this board and the caliber of its members Im sure.

I had hesitated to mention it but now in light of everyones continued civility, I feel comfortable do so...so here goes...I think its true that the native Americans have just grounds to resent Columbus day on principle...even though ole' Chris never set foot in North America he did immediately think of how much cash he could make from a slave trade made up of the innocent, ignorant, indigenous people he did find...so its fair that indigenous folks everywhere resent him and his special day...a message that A.I.M. continues to strongly voice. And that isnt even mentioning the whole who really got here first in historic times argument...

That said, I wish to bring attention to prehistiorc times, and the debate by mentioning Kennewick man...a late Archaic "indigenous" man whose remains were discovered on the Columbia river in Washington about 1996...N/As demanded immediate repatriation believing wrongly that theirs was the only race here until historic times. They nearly got and reburried him, that is untill the remains were positively identified as caucasiod! And that genetic markers indicated the folks he came from had been here in north America quite awhile...so who exterminated the Kennewick race? Shouldnt we all be painted with the same brush or held to the same standard, maybe all the way back to the neanderthal days?

Im afraid its a big circle that has no real end...its fun to study and discuss, and learn from all that we can...but I still wonder when a people becomes technically "indigenous".

We all came from some place, and usually thats a place where our ancestors did their best to protect themselvs from or retaliate against their neighbors while they themselves also sought to prosper and expand...and if they couldnt accomplish that where they were, as soon as they could they left to find a better life someplace else, while usually starting the whole cycle over in consequence...The big question to me is, in general, what has man kind learned from it, besides how to do it better?
TCA

This message has been edited. Last edited by: T.Albert,

T,
Good remarks. I used to live in WA, and it was interesting to read about all the hoo-ha over Mr. Kennewick.
I can't quote this as law or anything, but back in the 1960s I worked one summer on an archeology crew in Kansas. When we found a skeleton with an arrowhead imbedded in the jaw, our archeologist said that if it showed signs of a "Christian" burial, we had to leave it alone (or at least treat it differently) but if not, it was fit for research purposes. If that's true, the assumption was probably that if it was a dead Christian the person had been "white"--not even a safe assumption, either! Lots of Christian Indians, including, later, Black Elk himself.
I don't know when such laws came into effect around the country, but since then, there are plenty of safeguards for appropriate care for human remains no matter their origin.
Far afield from Columbus... Sorry.

Dick

Ol Chris and them other fellas sure got here well before 1840.Would the first Thanksgiving be the first Rondy or was it a Pot lach!!!!