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Factor
Picture of Hanshi
posted
I don't know why it took me so long to inquire about this since I've wondered about it off and on a long time. The question is; what did the Amerindians do about facial hair? I know some Amerindians today just let their beard or mustache grow and trim it (usually).

My own heritage goes back a couple of generations and none of my uncles had much in the way of facial hair growth. Their scalp hair was very dark and thick. Myself, I was 30 before I could grow a mustache or beard and it was pretty paltry at that. My first chest hair (not "hairs") didn't come till my 40s.

I know facial hair varied among the different ethnic Amerindian nations. What did they do "back in the day" before electric Norelcos became the norm?.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3560 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Plucked it out, one by one. If you cut it, it'll just grow back.
 
Posts: 332 | Location: South Coast (MS) | Registered: 16 September 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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Ouch!


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3560 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Ouch I agree, I had full Mustache by 19. I would have had tweezers on my strap for my pouch Smiler

BC


"Better fare hard with good men than feast it with bad."
Thomas Paine
 
Posts: 649 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 27 June 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of andy*
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Another OUCH! I hear ya about having a full mustache at an early age...used to hate those young L.T.'s who couldn't grow a mustache if you payed them getting on my case during inspection 'cause they couldn't find anything else to gig me on...
Andy


Follow me I am the Infantry
 
Posts: 668 | Location: Everson, Washington | Registered: 27 June 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Many of the aboriginal males of North America did not grow facial hair. I suspect that more of the current ones have some due to genetic mixing with those that do, or with Europeans.

LD


It's not what you know, it's what you can prove
 
Posts: 3843 | Location: People's Republic of Maryland | Registered: 10 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Genetic mixing?Oh yeah,with a vengeance.My Family played with the best.I look Germanic/celtic,but both my sons show the native genes that skipped a generation in their skin tone,and hair color.One is almost devoid of body/facial hair where the other had a full beard by the time he was 20.


Beer is proof that God loves us,and wants us to be happy-B. Franklin
 
Posts: 2014 | Location: Oreegun Territory | Registered: 24 March 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hivernant
Picture of Pare-
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I've read reports and seen some original 18th & 19th c. brass spring tweezers from Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee and the Carolinas. There is, or was, a guy who was making them down that way.

Pare-
 
Posts: 104 | Location: Little River, I.T. | Registered: 06 February 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hivernant
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From what I have read, the fair sex of the aboriginal race did not like facial hair on their men. I would think over the generations it would have been bred out. FWIW, I have read few Europeans kept their beards when they headed west for the aforementioned reason.

What men will do for women... tis a shame...


anything worth shooting is worth shooting once.
 
Posts: 126 | Location: Demokratik Republik of Washington | Registered: 29 September 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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I've noticed that in original photos of Indians, including some who are historical figures of importance, it's not uncommon to see Fu Manchu type whiskers. It also seems to depend on the ethnicity of the nation. Some are seldom seen with facial hair but in others facial hair appears fairly common. I'd imagine they pluck. Full blooded modern descendents often have often heavy facial hair. I, myself, have only a pint or two of NDN blood but still had little facial hair until old age saw fit to bless me with solid silver/white/gray even though it's thin.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3560 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Free Trapper
Picture of Talltree
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Osiyo to all,
The hair on the head is a scared/spirtial issue, the hair on the body is a uncleanly issue. Facial hair was not accepted until the Europeans invaded the lands. Then AmerIndians tried to emulate the "Hair Faced" Europeans.

Talltree

Keep your tail high and dry!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Talltree,
 
Posts: 173 | Location: Oregon Territory | Registered: 11 June 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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quote:
Some are seldom seen with facial hair but in others facial hair appears fairly common


It's tough to say there is a universal phenotype for aboriginal peoples in North or South America, plus there are stories of contact pre-Columbus that may, if actually correct, have skewed some phenotypes.

(IIRC) there is an old photo of at least one chief who has painted on his handlebar mustache.

I do know that there is a perception in some ethnic groups that are not native to North America that aboriginals in some parts of what is now the United States had very little body hair, including facial hair. I attended a wedding of a very wealthy Spanish family once, in New Mexico, and the brides maids demonstrated they were of pure, Spanish blood by not shaving prior to wearing strapless gowns.

LD


It's not what you know, it's what you can prove
 
Posts: 3843 | Location: People's Republic of Maryland | Registered: 10 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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In the eastern portion of the country, remains and artifacts have been discovered over the years that predate the western land bridge migration. These have been dated from around 20,000 years ago to as much as 40,000 yrs. Interestingly, the evidence gathered is similar to identical to the same materials uncovered in Western Europe of the same age. The skulls don't match those of the western migration, either. It is considered politically incorrect to publish much of these discoveries and some Amerindian groups have claimed them, anyway. Obviously there was a great deal of "mixing" over the eons. On Brasstown Bald mountain in North Ga, Mayan ruins and artifacts have been unearthed. These native people were not remotely as primitive as we are led to believe.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3560 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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My understanding of what has been written in archeological studies is that there were at least(!)5 separate lineages that have been attributed to waves of immigration from Asia,Europe(still controversial),and maybe re-colonization from the advanced Nations of South America.So it makes sense that hairy or not may vary by culture,or location.The Tribes of North America were anything but homogeneous.My own Family includes ancestry from Native nations that were widely separated(North Dakota,and New England),so nothing phenotipically surprises me anymore.One set of first Cousins are red-heads,another set show stereotypical native features and skin coloring....The council leader of the local Tribes would look typically White/European if he didn't grow his hair long.


Beer is proof that God loves us,and wants us to be happy-B. Franklin
 
Posts: 2014 | Location: Oreegun Territory | Registered: 24 March 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of captchee
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quote:
I've read reports and seen some original 18th & 19th c. brass spring tweezers from Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee and the Carolinas


prior to that clam shell tweezers.
IMO the body hair issue is one of those continued stereotype that’s frankly been propitiated not only by Europeans but also American Indian peoples as a mater of pride .

As was mentioned , there is a lot of reference to plucking . Which isn’t as bad as you would think once you get used to it .
My grand father plucked his facial hair as long as I can remember .
Untell I was in my early 20’s I did as well . Its really not as bad as you think once you get used to it .
Now this isn’t to say that American Indian people have the same amount of body hair as Europeans do . Imo most don’t , to include those of mixed blood .
Which can be kinda funny as often times those of us with varying amounts of European blood , often have our facial hair grow in rather odd patterns.
Speaking for myself “ being of mixed blood “, I have never been able to grow a mustache.
At least one of any real thickness or length. It grows only so thick and long then seems to stop growing . Other places on my face grow even less hair so if I try and grow a beard , it never fully grows out or grows together ..
Also , NO chest or back hair , THANK GOD!!!!!

Talltree also brings up a point . Generally speaking Native peoples were far more clean then the Europeans entering this country . Take the Tsalagi as a reference. Our historic culture suggests a bath every day as part of a morning ritual . Such a thing was completely foreign to Europeans at the time of contact .
Even well after contact was established , European writings often describe us a vain . Holding appearance as an issue of utmost importance . In fact so much so that often times its written that those who survived the small pox plagues would kill themselves vs. live with the visible scares.
I have also read where the morning bathing my have contributed to even more deaths from the plagues do to having high fevers and then shocking the body with cold water .

I also think this hair topic is something that relates to age . In my own experience , the older I get , the darker my facial hair seems to show . I have also notice this with some of my friends who had far less facial hair when we were younger . What was once very light colored hair on my arms an legs , has now became darker . Now if that’s an effect of European blood , I don’t know .
I think probably it is .
But the reason I bring up the age issue is that many times the old photos that were taken that show facial hair , are of older men . We often forget that todays life expectancy is far longer then it was 100 years ago. Which was far longer then it was 200 years ago . The simple fact is that the vast majority of us today would be considered old or very old men when put in the context of 150-200 years ago .
Also back then the mindset would have been very different in that there wouldn’t have been such a strong ideal of % of blood . Basically you either belonged or you didn’t

Not to change the subject but IMO the whole land bridge thing has become more about the justification of assimilation then it is about genetic linage.
No mater how the subject is cut , the simple mater is that by the time of accepted European invasion, the peoples of this country were distinctly different then Europeans.
Even though in recent years there has been documented early reference of European contact in the Americas , for what ever reason that contact did not take hold or was not aloud to take hold. IE they did not become indigenous or if you like we can say they became extinct . That doesn’t mean however the genetically there wasn’t a trace of their existence left.
What im getting at here is that if we look as deep as our genes , studies to day are showing that most all of us carry from 1-4% Neanderthal genomes .
In Fact its not uncommon to see Neanderthal characteristics in modern humans .
Yet at the same time you don’t here all that many people claiming such blood lines or using those blood lines as a justification for a given social belief or acceptance .
Never mind that the reality is still the same . For what ever reason , early European contact in this country did not evolve as it did in Europe
Yet at the same time that’s what many do when it comes to American Indians and the European occupation of this land.

LMAO anyway , I get down of my soap box now LOL

This message has been edited. Last edited by: captchee,
 
Posts: 687 | Location: Payette ,Idaho | Registered: 23 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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Interesting post, capt. I escaped all body hair and only in middle age did I grow facial hair - I didn't even have to shave while I was in the army. When I finally managed to grow a little it was, of all things, gray. This seems to be characteristic of all the males on my mother's side. And, as you mentioned, the hair is in "unbalanced" patterns.

There has been speculation of very early immigration from SE Asia and the South Pacific. Likely the earliest peoples came from a number of distant lands. The farther into Central/South America, the older the traces.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3560 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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*snort* Chuckle,Guffaw!!As you hinted,we could chew this piece of gristle for days,and never get anywhere....It is fun to speculate though.


Beer is proof that God loves us,and wants us to be happy-B. Franklin
 
Posts: 2014 | Location: Oreegun Territory | Registered: 24 March 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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I think we all understand the presence of facial hair and the difference between NDNs and Euros as to how they dealt with it. As for where Amerindians came from, well, we all came from the same place along with our Neanderthal genes - and in my case, Klingon. Big Grin


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3560 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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Here in the northeast I've heard of two ways hair was removed from the head. One was to use a gun worm where the person would roll the hair into the worm and then pull it out. The other was to use ashes in your hands so you'd have a better grip on the hair(s) that were being pulled out. It's my understanding that both methods were used on captives being adopted after a raid.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...Be well.

snapper
 
Posts: 13 | Registered: 04 August 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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OUCH!


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3560 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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