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What year is the movie Mountain men set in?
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Booshway
posted
What year based on actually references from the movie do you think the movie the Mountain Men is set in - latest year possible

Question:
What year is the movie set in - using dialogue references from the movie what is the latest date and why do you believe it to be?

Choices:
1836-37
1837-38
1838-39
1839-40

 

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KHickam,


"But I swear, a woman's breast is the hardest rock that the Almighty ever made on this earth, and I can find no sign on it." Bear Claw Chris Lapp
 
Posts: 516 | Location: Ft Parker/Ft Manuel Lisa | Registered: 15 April 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
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I'm thinkin' it was 1838. The rendezvous that year was to be held in the Green River valley, but was moved to the Wind River (Popo Agie) to avoid the HBC. A note was written (by Moses "Black" Harris) and left on an old storehouse door to alert the trappers to this change of location: "Come to popoasia (Popo Agie) on Wind River and you will find plenty of trade, whiskey,and white women." Remember the scene in the movie where they found this note? There are several other time references in the movie, but this is the one that I remember best. The script was written by Fraser Clarke Heston (Chuck Heston's Son) who really must have studied the fur trade. Yours, ol' noisey
 
Posts: 69 | Registered: 12 September 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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The movie has some conflict in that regard, so maybe the makers couldn't figure it out either. Wouldn't have any idea how to vote. Fun movie to watch, though.
 
Posts: 507 | Registered: 14 August 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
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In 1808, John Colter of Lewis & Clark fame was captured by the Blackfeet. He was disarmed, stripped naked, and encouraged to run. While being chased by a large group of Indians, he managed to escape them by hiding out in a beaver lodge. Remember Bill Tyler doing just that in the movie? So I guess as far as dating this film, I have to say that I would find it very hard to do. -Noisemaker
 
Posts: 69 | Registered: 12 September 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Well, yes that would be difficult but the latest historical reference is what year? Perhaps 1839


"But I swear, a woman's breast is the hardest rock that the Almighty ever made on this earth, and I can find no sign on it." Bear Claw Chris Lapp
 
Posts: 516 | Location: Ft Parker/Ft Manuel Lisa | Registered: 15 April 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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This will give me a reason to watch the movie again and look for hints, and then vote for the year with the majority of items.
 
Posts: 507 | Registered: 14 August 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
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im def going with 38 ,the location matches it historically. and you remember fontnelle told tyler "take it while you can boys.next year you may not be able to sell beaver at all,the way things are going this could be your last rendezvous". there were only two more rendezvous and the next two were reportedly very small.there is a scene later in the movie that shows some trappers with tyler and henry ,jim walter (bill luckings character asks tyler where hes heading come break-up? I could never figure if he meant spring break-up or the rendezvous break-up? there are some other trappers walking around in the background and tyler and henry weren't with no companies.

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Posts: 70 | Location: hanover pa  | Registered: 21 September 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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It has to be 1838 because of the note. But for that to work the Wyeth character must be eliminated, but he is so misrepresented that he should be disregarded anyway.
 
Posts: 507 | Registered: 14 August 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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If it is indeed 1838 - then the Wyeth character should be eliminated - by that time he had been in the mountains some 4 yrs - so he was definately no green horn and had established and sold Ft Hall to the HBC by that time.

There is also that pesky reference to Oregon and that"You can't get no wagons over the Rockies" which Marcus Whitman had done - but abandoned it near the Blue Mts which I have never felt were part of the Rocky Mountains.


"But I swear, a woman's breast is the hardest rock that the Almighty ever made on this earth, and I can find no sign on it." Bear Claw Chris Lapp
 
Posts: 516 | Location: Ft Parker/Ft Manuel Lisa | Registered: 15 April 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
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Also, Fontenelle tells Tyler that silk has replaced beaver for hats, "silk is what they're making them out of now, Bill." Anything I am able to come up with points to the 1840's when this change of fashion occurred with no specific year given. Makes sense in a way because it would take a while for a new trend to take over; nothing happens overnight.
 
Posts: 69 | Registered: 12 September 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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I agree. I voted 1839-40 for that reason and a number of others.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3487 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Frank Ermatinger and some HBC people attended the 1838 rendezvous and he reported that Dripps and Fontanelle were paying $5 dollars for beaver and jacking the price of goods way up. They were trying to cut the price paid for beaver back to $3 and the trappers were protesting. Nobody was making any money, the catch was short, and Ermatinger - who could certainly offer an expert opinion - did not believe that Choteau & Co could continue doing business in the mountains much longer. Even though they did have a couple more, I believe it has to be 1838.
 
Posts: 507 | Registered: 14 August 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Fraser used a lot of "writer's license" in writing the script for the movie, just as I have in my story. To that end THE MOUNTAIN MEN takes place supposedly during 1838-1839.

Lucien Fontenelle did participate in the 1838 rondy and after returning to St. Louis went on to his home in Bellevue to be with his Omaha wife and child. He died in late 1838 or early 1839 from an undocumented illness at the age of 39.

Silk covered hats were known to be worn in Europe prior to the 1790's. Howsomever, a Charing Cross (England) hatter by the name of John Hetherington in 1797 wore a silk hat at the Stands and caused quite a fashion sensation with it. He is credited with the first appearance of the silk hat in England. The silk hats were slow to catch on with the fashionable until the very early 1830's and then they gained in popularity rapidly, sounding the death knell to the beaver fur trade.

In the movie there was speculation discussed that the the rondy Tyler and Frapp attends might be the last one. The number of beaver plews traded had drastically fallen off compared to earlier years. The number of beaver plews traded at the 1839 rondy wasn't any better and it was a toss up whether a rondy would be held in 1840. The Rondy of 1840 is considered to be the "Last Great Rondy".

Andrew Dripps actually held several more Rondy's into the mid 1840's. These were "company" rondy's attended by 40-80 trappers, hider's, wolfer's. By this time the beaver trade had expanded into the mixed fur trade of otter, cats, martin, etc. Howsomever, the number of beaver plews traded at the rondy of 1842 exceeded the number traded in the 1838,'39 and '40 rondy's.

Regards, xfox

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Crossfox,


The forest is a wilderness only to those that fear it, silent only to those that hear nothing. The forest is a friend to those that dwell within its' nature and it is filled with the sounds of life to those that listen.
 
Posts: 522 | Location: Bitterroot Valley | Registered: 23 October 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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I read where Fraser claimed to have the last years at the rendezvous to throw the challenge to the mountain on what life will be later...so I vote for the latest, but regardless, I enjoyed it as entertainment.
 
Posts: 15 | Registered: 06 January 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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Just for fun, which movie is better, "The Mountain Men", or "Dances With Wolves?"


"...having Providence for their founder and Nature for shepherd, gardener, and historian."
 
Posts: 44 | Location: Alabama | Registered: 01 May 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Greenhorn
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Also, I haven't seen The Mountain Men (going to shop on Amazon next), what other mountain men movies are there?


"...having Providence for their founder and Nature for shepherd, gardener, and historian."
 
Posts: 44 | Location: Alabama | Registered: 01 May 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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The mountain men. The idea of a band of Sioux in the 1860s that hadn't been trading with whites for generations is ridiculous. But the mountain men is only good 'till the end of the rendezvous and then it gets sappy. Also can't imagine a bunch of guys dancing around in capotes in July.
 
Posts: 507 | Registered: 14 August 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pilgrim
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Other mountain men type movies might include The Far Horizon or The Big Sky. Also Whitewater Sam or On Sacred Ground and maybe Winter Hawk. Availability is questionable. Wish someone would pick up on Terry C. Johnston's Titus Bass trilogy. Well, maybe someday.
 
Posts: 69 | Registered: 12 September 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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According to the Wikipedia reference, it's 1838 based on the rondezvous, but in reality it was probably a conglomeration of several historical events compressed into the movie. Just as Benjamin Martin in The Patriot was a mixture of Francis Marion, Thomas Sumter, and Daniel Morgan.

If you want to see some stuff about one of the rifles used in the movie, check out my long time friend Phil Schreier in this NRA Clip!

LD


It's not what you know, it's what you can prove
 
Posts: 3843 | Location: People's Republic of Maryland | Registered: 10 November 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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