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Using 1F in shotguns
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Factor
Picture of Dick
posted
So I know that VM Starr, among others, recommended using 1F powder in shotguns. I've never tried it. Now I have a 24-gauge. Would that bore size be considered too small for 1F to be desirable, or does bore size not make any difference? Any experience out there?

Dick


"Est Deus in Nobis"
 
Posts: 2902 | Location: Helena, Montana | Registered: 10 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Dick, I'm pretty sure that Starr mainly referred to using Fg powder in larger bored shotguns (larger than your 24 gauge) while using loads of birdshot. We might say that's really "shotgun stuff." For folks like you and me, loads for "trade gun stuff" might be more appropriate because we use round ball loads as much or more than birdshot. In my 20 gauge (and 24 gauge too, I assume) I've found that FFFg gives much better performance than with similar charges of FFg. By "performance" I really mean the velocity was much higher and accuracy was improved, possibly because of more consistent velocities. And my taste for FFFg has been spread to shot loads in those guns too, although I generally do not use more than 60 grains of powder under an equal measure of birdshot or more. If I wss going to work up some heavy duck or goose loads, yes, turkeys too, in larger bores I'd probably give some slower burning powders a real good chance. Shoot sharp's the word, Mike
 
Posts: 3531 | Location: Pacific Northwest | Registered: 25 October 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Dick
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Thanks, Mike,
I'm actually using 3Fg in all my guns now--.45, .54 and .58/24-ga. Or maybe one horn has 2Fg?... I can't say I'm having any problem, I'm just seeking a better shot pattern. 20 yards is about my limit--at 25 I can't rely on enough pellets in the kill zone.

Dick


"Est Deus in Nobis"
 
Posts: 2902 | Location: Helena, Montana | Registered: 10 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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quote:
I'm just seeking a better shot pattern


Dick, What is your load? Try using more shot by volume than powder, if you haven't already. Shoot sharp, Mike
 
Posts: 3531 | Location: Pacific Northwest | Registered: 25 October 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Dick
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I think I've got my pre-packed turkey loads at 60 grains 3Fg, and 70-75 gr. equivalent shot--#5s or mixed #5s and #7 1/2.
At 20 yards, I'm reasonably confident, but I turned down the turkey last spring at 25--my friends with their 870s didn't understand!

Dick


"Est Deus in Nobis"
 
Posts: 2902 | Location: Helena, Montana | Registered: 10 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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quote:
my pre-packed turkey loads at 60 grains 3Fg, and 70-75 gr. equivalent shot--#5s or mixed #5s and #7 1/2.


Dick, That sounds good to me. Perhaps real turkey hunters would add more shot... Like you suggest, the best test will be to try it on a turkey within 20 yards. Shoot sharp, Mike
 
Posts: 3531 | Location: Pacific Northwest | Registered: 25 October 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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Just as additional reference, I recently did some turkey load testing in my 42" .54cal smoothbore...the photo shows good pattern & penetration on small 3.5" steel tuna cans at 25yds.
60grns Goex 3F with:
100grn measure of #5s
100grn measure of #6s
90grn measure of #7.5s

For what its worth, my guideline for shot loads is not to exceed the pressures associated with same caliber published load data.
For example, T/C's published load data for a big heavy .54cal conical is around 550grns with 120grns Goex as a max load.
My turkey shot loads weigh about 8-10% more, but I only use 50% of the powder charge.
Your 24ga is essentially a .58cal with an even larger bore volume / less pressure.
(this assumes good quality modern steel, not a 200 year old iron barreled antique of course)



Flintlock Rifles & Smoothbores
Hunt Like The Settlers
 
Posts: 1867 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 28 January 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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I recently tried some 1 1/2 Fg. in my flint fowler and did not like it. The granules are so coarse they often left a lot of space around the touchhole making ignition a very iffy situation. Last time I'll use it.
 
Posts: 1487 | Location: Mountain Home, Arkansas | Registered: 08 October 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Hanshi
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After reading of the various loads some of you successful turkey hunters use, and a limited amount of testing, I settled on 70 grains of 2F, op card & lubed 1/8" felt wad with about 80grn measure of #6 (approx 1.40 oz)for my .62 smoothbore. At 25 yards it puts a fair number of pellets in a turkey neck/head. Using #71/2 put a few more on target but I like the penetration of the heavier shot. I'm not through testing loads, however.


*Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.*
 
Posts: 3470 | Location: Maine (by way of Georgia then Va.) | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of roundball
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quote:
Originally posted by Hanshi:
"...80grn measure of #6 (approx 1.40 oz)..."
Intersting...I used a set of digital scales to weigh mine, and using a T/C adjustable powder measure, the weight of #6s I got is:

80grn measure setting = 1.10ozs (480grns)
90grn measure setting = 1.25ozs (546grns)
100grn measure setting = 1.40ozs (611grns)


Flintlock Rifles & Smoothbores
Hunt Like The Settlers
 
Posts: 1867 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 28 January 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
Picture of Dick
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quote:
Originally posted by roundball:
Just as additional reference, I recently did some turkey load testing in my 42" .54cal smoothbore...the photo shows good pattern & penetration on small 3.5" steel tuna cans at 25yds.
60grns Goex 3F with:
100grn measure of #5s
100grn measure of #6s
90grn measure of #7.5s


Roundball,
I haven't tried the tin-can test yet--I'm impressed with the number of hits you got at 25 yards. And you're using a good deal more shot per 60 grains of powder than I've tried. Are you using a single stack of shot, or double/triple? Wads?

Dick


"Est Deus in Nobis"
 
Posts: 2902 | Location: Helena, Montana | Registered: 10 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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quote:
Originally posted by Dick:
Roundball, I haven't tried the tin-can test yet--I'm impressed with the number of hits you got at 25 yards. And you're using a good deal more shot per 60 grains of powder than I've tried. Are you using a single stack of shot, or double/triple? Wads?
Dick
Yes, one of the old sayings that actually seems to have merit:
"Little powder, more lead, shoots far, kills dead"

The components I settled on for my 42" .54cal:
60grn measure of Goex 3F
1 Circle Fly 1/2" lubed cushion wad
100grn measure of #5s or #6s (90grn measure if 7.5s)
2 Circle Fly OS cards

Max steel can penetration of the small 7.5's is 25yds and not a load I'd use for a turkey skull/neck vertebrae...(would use it as a dove load)...the #5s and #6s penetrate better, plus squeeze out a few more yards margin for range.


Flintlock Rifles & Smoothbores
Hunt Like The Settlers
 
Posts: 1867 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 28 January 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Factor
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Thanks! Pretty soon I'll get out and experiment. Our turkey season starts in mid-April, and I may not get out right away to hunt in any case.

Dick


"Est Deus in Nobis"
 
Posts: 2902 | Location: Helena, Montana | Registered: 10 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
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If you don't already know it...there definitely seems to be something to the saying that smoothbores are finicky.
Your slightly larger bore might like 70/80grns Goex...of either 3F or 2F.

It might like only half a cushion wad (1/4") or the full cushion wad...my .62cal does better with only half of a 1/2" cushion wads to get a tight pattern for turkey...but the full 1/2" cushion wads open the patterns just perfectly for things like crows, etc.

But the bottom line is using more shot than powder is fundamental to good patterns out of cylinder bores.

If my .58cal rifle was a smoothbore, I'd start with the following...and stay with the same amount of shot while testing powder & wad differences.

70grns measure Goex 3F (and ready to test 80grns 2F)
Full 1/2" cushion wad (and ready to test half wads)
100grn measure of #6s (and ready to test #5s)
2 Circle Fly OS cards


Flintlock Rifles & Smoothbores
Hunt Like The Settlers
 
Posts: 1867 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 28 January 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Booshway
Picture of wattlebuster
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Dick my flintlock shoots good with Fg BUT its a 12 ga. I also had a 10 ga double barrel that shot Fg very well but that gun was stolen years ago. The only smaller ga that I've ever had any experience was a friends 62 cal. He tried some of my Fg an it shot very bad, so I think Fg seems to lean to the larger bores like some of the other guys said. BUT it sure would'nt hurt to try some an see. Ya just never know Smiler


Nothing beats the feel of a handmade southern iron mounted flintlock on a crisp frosty morning
 
Posts: 354 | Location: Heart of DIXIE | Registered: 18 November 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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